Languages are quite arbitrary things. In languages there really are no absolutes. Nothing is set in stone, and all attempts to define rules that fit people’s usage of them inevitably come up short.
Standards for languages are created by declaring one region’s dialect the “official” version of the language at some moment in time, and the rules of the language are continually modified to meet the changing speech patterns of the language’s users. There is no right or wrong in language.
The United States and Great Britain are often referred to as two nations divided by a common language. For a foreigner learning English then, they have two major options in learning the language: learn British English or American English. While there is no “linguistically correct” language, there is a correct choice, and Germans always choose the wrong answer.
Purely from an unbiased standpoint, Germans should learn American English in school for a multitude of reasons. If a German were to watch the undubbed version of a movie, 9 times out of 10, that movie would feature actors with American accents, and the same goes for television. It just doesn’t make any sense to watch a movie about high school and then talk about your upcoming “A levels”.
A German is 5 times more likely to come into contact with an American than someone from Great Britain if the two people are picked up randomly from the planet and dropped into the same bucket.
In 2006 the GDP of Great Britain was $1.93 trillion, a paltry sum in comparison to the $13.13 trillion of the US. A German is more likely to be doing business with an American company than a British company.
A tourist in Germany is more likely to have come from the United States than from Great Britain. It would seem that the proximity to Great Britain would encourage British tourism in Germany, but the British also need to spend their vacation in some place sunny like Portugal. Plus they already have old stuff to look at at home.
If a German is going to visit long lost relatives whose ancestors emmigrated to an English speaking country, or vice versa, then those relatives will almost certainly be speaking with an American dialect.
It would seem like a good idea to go to the source for a language, but then Germans would just be learning German, when they actually want to learn English, and that doesn’t make any sense. So Germans instead learn what they refer to as “Oxford English”.
In theory there is nothing wrong with learning England’s version of English, just like there is nothing wrong with learning that Swiss language Rhaeto-Romanic . It can be done, but it is just not a worthwhile pursuit. English is the world language because of America, not because of England, so it only makes sense to learn America’s version.
In German schools you will receive bad marks for speaking with an American accent or using American spelling if you picked it up during your high school year in the States. Instead you should be receiving bonus points for learning the standards of a world economic and cultural super power. Mickey Mouse doesn’t speak with a British accent.
Any German reading this article will completely disagree with me, but it won’t be a bag of crisps that they are munching on whilst reading.
deutsche Übersetzung für Astrid ein/ausblenden
Howdy Astrid,
here’s yer translation:
Die Deutschen lernen absichtlich die falsche Sorte Englisch
Sprachen sind eine recht willkürliche Sache. In Sprachen gibt es keine wirklichen Absolute. Nichts ist in Stein gemeisselt, und alle Versuche, Regeln zu definieren, die dem eigentlichen Gebrauch gerecht werden, kommen zwangsläufig zu kurz.
Standards für Sprachen werden kreiert, indem man an einem bestimmten Punkt in der Geschichte den Dialekt einer Region als offizielle Version der Sprache deklariert, und die Regeln der Sprache werden kontinuierlich angepasst, um sich den wechselnden Sprachmustern des Benutzers der Sprache anzupassen. Es gibt kein richtig oder falsch bei Sprachen.
Die Vereinigten Staaten und Großbritannien werden oft als “Zwei Nationen, die durch die gemeinsame Sprache getrennt sind” bezeichnet. Für einen Ausländer, der Englisch lernt, gibt es also zwei Hauptoptionen, diese Sprache zu lernen: lernen Sie britisches Englisch oder amerikanisches Englisch. Während es keine “sprachlich richtige” Sprache gibt, gibt es eine richtige Entscheidung und die Deutschen wählen immer die falsche Antwort.
Von einem völlig unparteiischen Standpunkt aus gesehen, sollten die Deutschen aus einer Vielzahl von Gründen amerikanisches Englisch in der Schule lernen. Wenn ein Deutscher die Originalversion eines Filmes gucken würde, würde dieser in 9 von 10 Fällen Schauspieler mit amerikanischem Akzent enthalten, und das Gleiche gilt für das Fernsehen. Es macht einfach keinen Sinn, einen Film über die High School zu gucken und dann über die bevorstehenden A-Levels zu sprechen.
Es ist 5 mal wahrscheinlicher, dass ein Deutscher mit einem Amerikaner in Kontakt kommt als mit jemandem aus Großbritannien, würde man diese beiden Leute wahllos vom Planeten nehmen und in den gleichen Eimer werfen.
Im Jahre 2006 war das Bruttosozialprodukt von Großbritannien $1,93 Billionen, eine geringfügige Summe im Vergleich zu den $13,13 Billionen der Vereinigten Staaten. Ein Deutscher wird eher mit einer amerikanischen Firma Geschäfte machen als mit einer britischen Firma.
Ein Tourist in Deutschland kommt eher aus Amerika als aus Großbritannien. Es könnte den Anschein erwecken, dass die Nähe zu Großbritannien den britischen Tourismus in Deutschland fördern würde, aber die Briten müssen ihren Urlaub auch an einem sonnigen Ort wie Portugal verbringen. Ausserdem haben sie schon alte Sachen zum Angucken zu Hause.
Wenn ein Deutscher lang vermisste Verwandte besuchen will, deren Vorfahren in ein englischsprachiges Land ausgewandert sind oder andersrum, dann werden diese Verwandten fast sicher mit einem amerikanischen Dialekt sprechen.
Es erscheint als eine gute Idee, zum Ursprung einer Sprache zu gehen, aber dann würden die Deutschen nur Deutsch lernen, obwohl sie eigentlich Englisch lernen wollen und das macht keinen Sinn. Also lernen die Deutschen stattdessen etwas, das sie “Oxford Englisch” nennen.
In der Theorie ist nichts falsch daran, Englands Version von Englisch zu lernen, genauso wie nichts daran falsch ist, diese Schweizer Sprache Rätoromanisch zu lernen. Man kann es machen, aber es ist kein lohnenswertes Vorhaben. Englisch ist die Weltsprache wegen Amerika, nicht wegen England, also macht es nur Sinn Amerikas Version zu lernen.
In deutschen Schulen werden Sie schlechte Noten bekommen, wenn Sie mit amerikanischem Akzent sprechen oder die amerikanische Rechtschreibung benutzen, die Sie während Ihres Highschooljahres in den Staaten gelernt haben. Stattdessen sollten Sie Bonuspunkte dafür erhalten, dass Sie die Standards einer wirtschaftlichen und kulturellen Weltmacht lernen. Mickey Mouse spricht ja nicht mit einem britischen Akzent.
Jeder Deutsche, der diesen Artikel liest, wird mir widersprechen, aber es wird keine Tüte Crisps sein, die Sie beim Lesen knabbern.
Yall take care now, ya hear,
John
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July 18th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
This is exactly what I’ve been saying for years now. One of my profs actually told me I should try and get rid of my carefully acquired American accent because schools would require me to teach British English to the students - oh, I mean to the PUPILS. What for, I want to know, when American culture is less foreign to Germans than British culture?
July 18th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Well, America may be the reason why English is the international business language and why people in Liberia, Guam, American Samoa, and the Philipines speak English as well. But most countries in the world (including the USA) speak English because they were former British colonies. So British English influenced more countries than the US (although, of course, today American culture has a much bigger influence).
This doesn’t justify why American English isn’t accepted in German schools but I just wanted to point out why so many people think Americans arrogant…^^
By the way: I like English accents over American accents. You easily understand every single word. Maybe that’s a reason why so many Germans prefer BE over AE - Americans mutter in a kind of way that is more difficult to understand if you’re not an auditive person.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Back in the days when I was still going to school (mid 90s) we could chose between AE and BE in tests, as long as you sticked to one version it was fine, it only counted as an error if you started to mix the spelling.
Yet I agree, it’s quite stupid to teach BE as most of business English is AE nowadays and that’s what you’ll need later.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
as a german who learned more AE then BE at school i have to say that i think there are a lot more countries where BE is better spoken then AE. It’s not the point that the USA is bigger the point is that there are a lot additional colonies and they all are influenced by BE NOT AE. Why learn every dialect on his own (and the USA has got more than enough dialects on its own, so even if you try to learn AE you don’t need to understand every us american) if you can learn the source of all this fuzz?
Of course i could learn France (i speak “saxon” already) but that would be totaly different from learning english and would be everything but not redefining “source” correct.
so… yes i think the americans are arrogant if they do not see the many other nations and only themself (which obviously is the normal approach by the most american citizens)
July 18th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Die Argumentation hat eine entscheidende Lücke:
Noch öfter als zur Kommunikation mit Amerikanern und Briten benutzt ein durchschnittlicher Deutscher die englische Sprache als Lingua Franca zur Kommunikation mit anderen Europäern (Polen, Spaniern, Finnen, …)
July 18th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
>you will receive bad marks for speaking with an American accent
No. Not at my school, and not at any other school where sensible teachers teach. I only tell my pupils to avoid mixing BE and AE, but as long as somebody has an American accent, that’s fine with me. Some of my colleagues, by the way, speak an American accent themselves.
And English lessons in Germany aren’t as exclusively Britain-centered as you seem to think. True, the book we use for fifth-formers (Gymnasium/Bavaria) starts in Nottingham; but later on, there is a visit to relatives in New York, and in years 9 and 10 the texts and stories are almost exclusively set in the USA.
@MuGo: Don’t you think you’re generalizing a bit too much? “Americans mutter” - really, as if a New Yorker and a man from Dallas had identical accents … And if you compare a Lake District accent with a Californian one, I’m not so sure which one is easier to understand for a learner of English. Of course, these a very superficial statements again, since they don’t take into consideration the speakers’ educational and social backgrounds etc. There are differences - and one of the jobs that English lessons ought to achieve is prepare pupils (or students, if you like) for the incredible variety that awaits them.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
I encourage generalizing too much on this site.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
You are just jealous. We know that Dr. Carson Beckett had spoken the best English in Stargate Atlantis until the persons in charge became jealous of his beautiful Scottish accent and kicked him out. But at last I forgave them since they got Jewel Staite as the new Doctor. I like her since I first watched Firefly.
What I ever wanted to know is if any American (not being from TX) ever understood the sheriff at the beginning of “From Dusk Till Dawn” when he spoke to the shopkeeper. I never got it and I tried hard (10 years ago).
July 18th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
“In German schools you will receive bad marks for speaking with an American accent or using American spelling if you picked it up during your high school year in the States.”
Let me disagree. That’s just plain wrong. At least in Bavaria. In school we were told to pick one (i.e. either AE or BE) and stick with it. The teacher didn’t care which one we picked and it was only ever a problem when we were inconsistent.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
I completely agree. Also, there is no sense in learning some randomly picked Hanover accent as “High German”.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
No, definitely not.
I prefer American spelling because it is far easier than British spelling.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Your SO right. i HATE british english.it sounds totally weird to me. actually it even sound kinda gay. they should really start teaching american english in school.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
The biggest problem is that school teachers want us to be perfectionists. My English teacher told us the difference between child and children and that childs and childrens are both wrong. But even the president of the United States doesn’t get it right:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=103508&title=childrens-do-learn
Since I have no ambition of being the next president of any country, I don’t see the point in being a perfectionist.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I can’t imagine that american english is not accepted in school. The kids don’t even learn Englisch any more but Amerikanisch. Sounds pretty accepted to me.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
“English is the world language because of America, not because of England”
Aah, but:
Most other countries which have English as their main language (e.g. Australia, South Africa), or at least lingua franca (India) speak English because of British colonialism, not American colonianism.
July 18th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
It’s not that bad. There are some -mostly old- teachers that think you should talk with a British accent because it sounds sophisticated and some even give bad marks because of that. It’s ridiculous, i gotta admit it but you are not completely right. Not all Germans think BE is the right choice, it’s just that most of the teachers are speaking with British accent so the students naturally learn BE. So, it’s not our fault, even though it’s stupid. Blame the teachers!
July 19th, 2008 at 12:50 am
i disagree
as a german and as such from a real unbiased standpoint i must say british english is the choice number one, and i am glad that it is teached in german schools in favour (note the stylish ‘u’, john :D). the british accent is much cleaner, understandable and way more sexy then american dialects. british english has a special trait, which you americans managed to loose 
July 19th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Ich widerspreche nicht, aber ich erinnere mich an einen Vorfall aus meiner Zeit auf dem Gymnasium.
Eine zweisprachig aufgewachsene Mitschülerin liest englischen Text in feinstem British-English vor und wird danach in äh Englisch mit starkem deutschen Akzent von der Lehrerin drauf hingewiesen, dass sie in Zukunft bitte deutlicher sprechen soll. Vielleicht wäre es in diesem einen Fall besser gewesen American-English zu sprechen. Who knows?
July 19th, 2008 at 7:43 am
In my opinion it is not so important which “dialect” to learn. People will understand each other most of the time if they try to understand and help each other, regardless of some different spelling or a few different words.
I think it is most important to learn a foreign language at all, and to learn about life in other societies. This is something all Europeans do (and why not learn the language and culture of their neighbours, like France or Great Britain?). It would be very helpful if more Americans would learn a foreign language, learn about other cultures, and perhaps travel abroad …
July 19th, 2008 at 8:26 am
why oxford-english? to pick the least common? at least BE or AE are spoken by some, but oxfordian?
Are americans or the british learning german in an siebenbürgen-dialect?
July 19th, 2008 at 8:38 am
British English is of course the correct one to learn as AE is just degenerated. Here some examples…
BE: “I was pretty surprised.”
AE: “I was like whoa!!!”
BE: “I was confused.”
AE: “I was like wtf???”
July 19th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Die Argumentation, dass AE eine Abwandlung des BE sei ist im Übrigen ebenfalls Schwachsinn; beide Variationen stammen vom Englisch ab dass zur Zeit der Amerika-Konolisation gesprochen wurde und haben sich unterschiedlich entwickelt
So. 
July 19th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Oh my… Entschuldigung für die Schreibfehler da oben. Ich sollte wirklich erst lesen was ich geschrieben habe, bevor ich es abschicke. *erröt*
July 19th, 2008 at 11:00 am
I got penalty for using US slang in my Leistungskurs exams all the time, but then again, my teacher was a retard. It might be my fault for not switching to BE when I’m able to quite well (Monty Python and Doctor Who left their mark), but making a point was more important to me.
Also, my LK was somewhat annoying anyway since only two people in it actually *spoke English*.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Monty Phyton is reason enough to lern BE.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
What really strikes me about the comments on each and every one of the posts at this blog is that about two per cent of the participants seem to have read any of the other comments. The other 98 per cent might as well write e-mails to John. How communicative.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Speaking of Monty Python: these comments remind me of the explanatory footnotes you find in the Taschenbuch editions of Monty Python skits. You know, to help you understand the jokes better and thus, make it all that much funnier.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
A very dear American friend of mine once clued me in to the best-kept secret of Americans, one they’re deeply ashamed of:
People talking with a British accent give them a b*ner.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
In ‘My Fair Lady’ Prof. Higgins sings about the English Language “And the Americans haven’t used it for years.”
Germans don’t learn the wrong ‘English’. They learn the ONLY English.
Americans (the 50% that do not speak Spanish) have something as a language that sounds a little bit like English but is totally different. Like the German that is spoken in Switzerland.
PS: Some years ago the USA had no official language.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
it is wrong to say that schools don’t accept american accent and spelling. when I was in middleschool, we were tought american spelling,after we learned brittish spelling in earlier years. when in Highschool, we were given the choice to decide which spelling to apply, as long as we were using it in a coherent way.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
“Any German reading this article will completely disagree with me, but it won’t be a bag of crisps that they are munching on whilst reading.”
Nope. I agree. Although I never ever had any trouble using AE in tests.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I really don’t see what all the fuss is all about. I’m an American that’s been teaching English for over 11 years in Austria, and I’ve yet to see any important differences between BE and AE. I teach my students/pupils Standard English, so that they can be understand anywhere in the world. If we encounter a word like “color”, then I explain to them that there’s another spelling variation “colour”, and that it’s far more important to consistently stick to one style of spelling and pronunciation than it is to worry about whether AE is better than BE and vice versa.
I also encounter a lot of bias and b*llshit regarding the so-called superiority that BE is supposed to have over AE. People here swear that there’s something inherently better about British English, for example British people supposedly speak more clearly, use better grammar, use less slang, etc., etc., yet hardly any of these Austrians or Germans have ever been to England to actually hear how people there communicate. For the record, I’ve been to England several times, and I can assure you all that the British do NOT speak a superior form of English to the Americans. As a matter of fact, they speak so badly there that most of the times you can hardly understand what they’re trying to tell you. A large percentage use appallingly bad grammar, swallow or mumble all their words and use the most unclear and confusing accents I’ve ever heard. What most Austrians/Germans don’t know, or what their teachers never teach them in school, is that what they call British English is spoken by a minority of British speakers - mostly educated professionals who reside in London. Everyone else speaks some form of insufferable dialect that requires subtitles in films (even in English speaking countries!) in order to be understood.
The English language in England is being so badly mutilated that CNN reported several months on accent schools in London, whose only purpose is to train British speakers on the correct usage of English language. Apparently, so many Brits are now being turned down for jobs because of their bad English or incomprehensible accent, that people are now having to resort to accent school in order to polish their grammar and develop a more neutral, professional sounding accent.
So much for the superiority of British English!
July 19th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
I am German and married to an American and I absolutely agree with what you wrote. My little brother is still in school and of course he uses American English because that’s how he communicates with my husband and his teacher had the nerve to substract points from his last exam because he used the American spelling for some words (center instead of centRE) and his teacher won’t let him pronounce words
“the American way” either and it just pisses me off…
July 19th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
> “Any German reading this article will completely disagree with me, but it
> won’t be a bag of crisps that they are munching on whilst reading.”
Indeed not. But it’s a bag of Gummibärchen which, I am told by wikipedia, was created by a Briton in 1909.
Blimey!
July 19th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Sothis said: ”…the british accent is much cleaner, understandable…”
OK, if the people actually speak BE maybe with just an accent but without dialect, then you’re right. But who does in GB? Out of home sometimes people don’t even understand others living just a few kilometers (a few 0.621… miles *s*) away. I had been in the south of GB a few years ago by business. And (honestly!) one Briton asked another Briton what a third Briton was talking about, because he didn’t understand him!
I think, the reason is, that British dialects come out of a time, when traveling was extreme seldom and telephone has not been invented. So the people lived in their small regions, capsuled from the others and language made it’s own local evolutions. On the other hand, in the USA in the beginning the people came from all over the world and had to learn English as a foreign language. So they learned that, what was called English in those times. So i think, in practice the AE is closer to ‘correct’ BE then most of the Britons actually speak.
Some commentators here argued that BE is spoken in the British colonies (or former British colonies). Do you really believe that (for example) English in India is still BE? Our company hast a subsidiary in India which supports our technical designers in CAD. You can believe me - it’s nearly impossible to understand those people when you just hear them (on the phone). In the beginning some of them had been in Germany for technical trainings. During that time the communication with them was a combination of sketching, demonstrating, gesticulating and speaking (in exact this order!).
On the other hand our company has a couple of subsidiaries in Europe and South America. To talk with the people in those places we use English, which is a foreign language on both sides. But communication with those people is (for us) definitely the best and easiest of all (after German of course). On the second place is talking with Americans (works quite good) and on the third place is talking with Britons (mostly just hardly works). And far away is talking with people out of countries where something like English is the official language (works catastrophically). Doubtless there are exceptions, but there is a saying: ‘the exception proves the rule’.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
>>In German schools you will receive bad marks for speaking with an American accent or using American spelling if you picked it up during your high school year in the States.<<
Actually, teachers don’t care wether you spell the whole bunch of words whose suffix is ‘ize’ with ’s’ or ‘z’ (hypnotize/hypnotise) [I prefer hypnotize; I’m not even sure if ‘hypnotise’ is spelled correctly?].
@ the ‘centre’ / ‘center’ thingy: at least at our school teachers don’t care about that… perhaps they just don’t know which one’s correct.
However, the thing I dislike most about learning ‘Oxford English’ is the pronounciation of certain words like “can’t” or “dance”. ‘Yuck’ *g*
July 19th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
“However, the thing I dislike most about learning ‘Oxford English’ is the pronounciation of certain words like “can’t” or “dance”. ‘Yuck’ *g*”
Actually, the American pronunciation of words like “can’t” or “dance” (using the “æ” vowel) is much closer to the original, *correct* pronunciation than the “Broad A” accent used in British English. The “Broad A” pronunciation began as a fashion among the English upper class sometime in the late 18th to early 19th century. They suddenly developed the habit of using a “Broad A” in words like “can’t” and “dance” in order to differentiate themselves from the ignorant underclasses, or so the theory goes. Since this trend never caught on in America, the Americans continued using the correct pronunciation, with “æ”, right up to the present day.
As a matter of fact, many Brits would be shocked to know that American English pronunciation is much closer to original English than British English, hence another blow to the supposed superiority of British English.
I can also confirm a lot of what Tarkus said in his post. Austrian friends of mine that travel to England come back shocked that they didn’t hear the type of Oxford English that they learned in school and were lead to believe was prevalent there. One friend who vacations every year in England has dozens of stories about hotel clerks or waiters in restaurants who seemingly don’t speak a word of recognizable Standard English. As a matter of fact, he’s quite fond of writing down whatever unintelligible phrases they use and later bombarding me with explanations of what they could possibly mean.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
In German schools you will receive bad marks for speaking with an American accent or using American spelling if you picked it up during your high school year in the States.
And so it happened to me for two years indeed! Of course, like so many before me mentioned, we had to chose between spellings and stick to one - which I did. Nevertheless, I was always told be pronounce words the British way. After the first two months of 11th grade I got so angry with the teacher that I asked her if she would re-fund my parents the many thousands of German marks they had spent for sending me to the US. I told her if she would, then I would consider reverting to BE. So I know exactly how the commenter “Sol” feels. I’ve been there too, mate! (Especially being stuck in a Leistungskurs with people who had no clue about English)
July 20th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I got penalty for using US slang in my Leistungskurs exams all the time,
maybe that’s because you use slang? slang is not accepted in any language when it comes to leistungskurse. that has nothing to do with AE or BE.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Actually, the American pronunciation of words like “can’t” or “dance” (using the “æ” vowel) is much closer to the original, *correct* pronunciation than the “Broad A” accent used in British English.
so what would that original version be then? even in received pronounciation which sets the standards for the broadcasting language (equivalent to high german) calls it dance with long a. by the way not sure whether you noticed but it’s called ENGLISH for a certain reason…
July 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Does that mean non-Germans will learn the Bavarian accent in the future, since it is the language of the so much more successfull Germans than those weird people from Hannover.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Thomas… If they’re more likely to hear a Bavarian accent from (randomly chosen) speakers of German than Standard German, why shouldn’t they?
July 20th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
@vanessa: No, I restraint from using slang. But my teacher just loved England; she went there on vacation every year. So, naturally, she tried to “convert” me to use “proper” English.
Her England-trips, however, did not improve her English. It was horrible as she tried to teach English in English. She made so many mistakes it hurt my ears. After a while, I just faded out and let my mind wander. I guess my lack of participation (in a class where there were actually only two out of fifteen students who had the skills for a Leistungskurs) made her angry and that’s why she graded me down in the beginning and constantly corrected me.
I tried to resolve it with her, stayed after class to discuss it with her. It didn’t help so in the end, my mom (who’s also an English teacher) talked to her and told her to stuff her preconceptions and to start grading me according to my level of performance, not to her personal taste.
It helped. Got my English Abitur with 15 points
July 20th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
@Vanessa
Linguists claim that American English is closer to the historical pronunciation of the English language than British English is for two main reasons:
1. The English spoken by British pilgrims to the American colonists is still very close to what’s spoken by Americans today
2. The English language in England has undergone several fashionable changes over the past two centuries, as opposed to AE, one of these changes was the introduction of the Broad A accent. You can see this in some north east American cities (northern NY State and Boston, for example) that have also adopted the Broad A accent on account of their close proximity and historical ties to England.
A standard is basically what anyone chooses to define it to be. The British defining the Broad A accent as Received Pronunciation doesn’t make it any more correct than any other variety of English, however we can still say that many aspects of American English is closer to the historic English than BE.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
There’s an easy solution to all of this for you Germans trying to master English: learn how to imitate accents. The other differences between AE and BE are fairly minor.
July 20th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
I as a German completely agree with that article. I’d have loved to learn AE at school. However, they always told us to pronounce words the “British Way”, which, in my opinion, just sucks…
July 20th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
I’ve learnt both at school, first few classes in British and then American English in the Oberstufe. I guess my pronunciation is closer to the American standard, should there be such a thing.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
What was that again? AE means awful English and BE means better English? ;-P
That said, the point is to understand people and be understood. I think it is easier to learn BE and understand Americans than vice versa. So unless you live in America (continent, not only USA) go with BE so that you can easily adjust to local customs.
Prost!
Robert
July 20th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Actually most Germans speak english neither with a british nor an american accent. Säi schpieek it wis a tschörman äkzent.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Um… I’m way too lazy to read through all the comments now, so it might have already been said, but when I went to school (and I got my Abi only two years ago) we were taught first British English, then one or two years later American English. Both were accepted, the accent as well as the spelling, though we were asked to be consistent in the use.
Can’t remember if anybody really ever cared about consistency, though^^
Of course, what our teachers actually told us was more of a German English (or rather Bavarian English), but that is a completely different matter…
July 20th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
> Starstuff
Honestly, after a year I didn’t quite care anymore. So I got a B or a C when my level was above that, but as I said, he was a retard.
> vanessa
Slang as in trunk where my teacher expected boot. It’s not as though I pulled out borderline incomprehensible wording.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Well, as all of the 3 years I lived in Germany (and where I learned German) were in Bavaria, small bread “rolls” will always and forever be “semmeln” and not “broetchen”.
AND as an American living the past 2.5 years in England- I can attest to the diverse and often hard to understand dialects in this small country! We (my German husband and I and the kids) once drove a few hours north to Stoke-on -Trent, and I COULD NOT understand what the people there said. My husband just flat out refused to try and order at Mcdonalds, and I was BARELY able to place an order, those people talk like they’ve got rocks in their mouths! Yeah, the BE people learn outside of Britain is likely the so-called “Queen’s English” and is only actually spoken by a minority of people here!
July 21st, 2008 at 12:33 am
Since only relatively few Germans earn their money as translators or maybe tourist guides, the English spoken by the majority Germans is of course that of amateurs. Their German accent will usually be so thick that it doesn’t matter at all whether they say “shedule” or “skedule”, etc.
The comments for this post are a good example, at least as far as the written form is concerned. To quote a few examples:
“as a german who learned more AE then BE at school i have to say that i think there are a lot more countries where BE is better spoken then AE”
“Your SO right. i HATE british english.it sounds totally weird to me. actually it even sound kinda gay.”
“I can’t imagine that american english is not accepted in school.”
“i disagree
as a german and as such from a real unbiased standpoint i must say british english is the choice number one, and i am glad that it is teached in german schools in favour (note the stylish ‘u’, john :D).”
(The previous one is my favourite, getting the spelling of “favour” right, but not the past participle of “teach”.)
“why oxford-english? to pick the least common? at least BE or AE are spoken by some, but oxfordian?”
“it is wrong to say that schools don’t accept american accent and spelling. when I was in middleschool, we were tought american spelling,after we learned brittish spelling in earlier years.”
“Of course, like so many before me mentioned, we had to chose between spellings and stick to one - which I did.”
Other than that, well, I find it a bit difficult to comment on something that isn’t meant to be taken seriously, but I want to point out that if the ranking of a country among Germany’s foreign trade partners should guide us here, French (or “France”, as another commenter charmingly called the language) is greatly undervalued, as France is the leading importer in Germany as well as the leading recipient of German exports.
July 21st, 2008 at 7:52 am
Back in school I had some kind of ongoing argument with my English teacher. She insisted on always using BE since that was the kind of English the ministry of education insited on.
The funny thing though was that we were to use BE even when analyzing texts written about topics in America.
So I always got a few nagative remarks for continuously using the type of english during my interpretation that was used in the original text. But we kept this very friendly and I got the maximum number of points for my English part of the Abitur.
July 21st, 2008 at 9:24 am
After 5 trips to the UK i realized:
Nobody talks English at all in that country! I went to a KFC in Grennock, Scotland, were nobody understood anything what was told, even my scottish(!) father just shrugged and said: “they know we’re germans so they do this on purpose!
July 21st, 2008 at 9:27 am
@Sebastian: What’s your point? People who make grammar or spelling mistakes must not be allowed to participate in this discussion? Are you kidding or just plain arrogant? Do you really believe you can deduce pronunciation skills from spelling mistakes? Ever heard of dyslexia or good ol’ typos (choose vs. chose, for instance)?
July 21st, 2008 at 10:55 am
Isn’t it nice how much of a discussion each of these articles raises? Only for the record: I stuck to the AE I picked up during my exchange-year in 1985 and never got downgraded for it. I believe that understanding and being understood is the key here, and as someone has already pointed out, I mostly speak english with non-Brits and non-Amis, who mostly have their own, or an AE accent, which is predominant in business communication.
July 21st, 2008 at 3:58 pm
There are, of course, a lot of teachers here who still insist “red nicht in diesem klebrigen Ami-Slang” - and that’s deplorable, of course. I had a charming moment in my current LK when a student fresh from Maine with a very convincing accent told me, upon hearing me speak (I sound, although I don’t necessarily write, quite British) that he thought he needed to work on his British accent. I told him to forget about it. Now, this guy is actually a good student who frequently gets excellent marks - but I tend to mistrust people who claim their teacher gave them bad marks just because of an American accent. More often than not, they will just not be very good at English.
And yes, Matthias, you can deduce quite a lot about people’s language skills from the way they write. There are typos and then there are mistakes.
>Slang as in trunk where my teacher expected boot.
Please don’t call it slang when it’s not slang. It’s simply a different variety. And no, being closer to 17th century English doesn’t make American pronunciation any more or less valid than British English. They just are. Get over it already.
July 21st, 2008 at 4:21 pm
@Sabine:
“but I tend to mistrust people who claim their teacher gave them bad marks just because of an American accent. More often than not, they will just not be very good at English.”
You may do so. I went to the US with an A in English at the end of 10th grade and had 15pts (full marks) in 11th and 12th grade after I returned. In my Senior English courses in the US I was usually the student with the best grades, especially when it came to grammar and spelling. Why is it so hard to believe that some teachers feel threatened by more competent students?
But that’s just me.
—–
Regarding the discussions about “being able to understand English native speakers” … I must admit that I always had and still have trouble to understand BE. Of course, if I listen to a speech given by the Queen or back then by Tony Blair, it was no problem at all. But meeting people away from big cities … no chance. Or when I had British customers while I was working for a car rental agency at our local airport … I had no idea what they were saying and we actually ended up using more sign language than words
July 21st, 2008 at 7:33 pm
@ mez:
“Actually most Germans speak english neither with a british nor an american accent. Säi schpieek it wis a tschörman äkzent.”
You nailed it!!!
@ all:
Believe it or not - I’m a pronounciation freak: In school I had a British accent, when I went to Canada for 6 months I had a Canadian accent, and now, living in the US, I have a Midwestern accent.
I think if you learn the basics it’s a piece of cake to adjust. Just try it and keep an open mind about the language. I don’t think I would’ve made a lot of friends here trying to impose the BE on them.
Americans arrogant (regarding language)? I don’t know - I keep hearing that BE is the ONLY English, but I never hear over here that AE is the only TRUE English. Au contraire: When I slip back to my highschool days and use something like “fortnight” I get questions but never negative comments. I think Americans have more of an open mind in regards to their language. They try more to understand rather than to correct.
July 21st, 2008 at 7:57 pm
>> A German is 5 times more likely to come into contact with an American than someone from Great Britain
That’s why many Germans think English is a simple language.
*snicker*
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:49 am
I just love your blog
And you so damn right
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:48 am
>Why is it so hard to believe that some teachers feel threatened by more competent students?
Oh, I do believe that, and clearly your English is very good. I had an LK teacher myself who felt a little threatened that someone actually spoke and liked to speak English. He once told me I couldn’t call a shopping center a mall, as that’s a place where people go horseback riding in London. Oh well. And I do have some colleagues who have unreasonable prejudices against American English. It’s just that I’ve met plenty of students who came back from the US (or other places) with a good accent and some idioms, but with as little grasp of grammar and spelling as they left with. Not everyone will be brilliant at languages. Of course, in the long run all that counts is whether you can communicate well, but as a teacher, you have to take the overall competence into account.
The other day we had a surprise visit in class from an 18-year-old from Texas, who was quite happy to display his shocking lack of ignorance in matters linguistic and political. After one year of careful deconstruction of anti-American prejudices, he ruined my hard work at one fell swoop.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:49 am
The whole British vs. American English debate is completely moot, given that native speakers of the English language have long since lost sovereignty over it anyway. To really survive in today’s business environment, you need to be able to be adept enough to deal with Chinese speaking bad English, Indians speaking bad English, and Russians speaking bad English — in addition to the masses of poorly educated, poorly spoken Brits and Yanks around.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:25 am
> Sabine
“Please don’t call it slang when it’s not slang. It’s simply a different variety.”
Do tell that to my former teacher. In one exam, I wrote trunk and he wrote “AE slang, don’t use!” next to it. I should’ve put it in quotation marks, though, to make my joke easier to recognize.
Generally, my English education was laughable. I went to an altsprachliches Gymnasium and accordingly the English and French education was truly hideous. I more or less taught myself English with TV shows, movies, books and the internet.
Which led to an interesting incident where I failed grade 11 because of English and French (same teacher, too), switched schools to a neusprachliches Gymnasium and quite suddenly had an A in English! And still a D+ in French despite the fact my class had had French from grade 7 with five hours a week, and I had had French from grade 9 with three hours a week, i.e. had no chance in the first place.
My second English teacher had married an American, though, and hence didn’t care whether I used AE or BE as long as it was correct, leading to me choosing the Leistungskurs in the first place… of course THAT teacher was a “purist” (i.e. idiot) again, so down to B and eventually C it was.
But honestly, I don’t care much anymore; I got my Abitur, went on to university and it’s unfortunately a fact that my English is still better than that of 70% of the Anglistik students I know.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
“In German schools you will receive bad marks for speaking with an American accent or using American spelling if you picked it up during your high school year in the States. Instead you should be receiving bonus points for learning the standards of a world economic and cultural super power.”
My english teacher allowed students who went to the United States as an exchange student to speak and write american english - on the condition that they use *only* american english then. No usage of both “color” and “theatre”. The few who tried quickly came back to their senses and happily accepted The Queen’s English as the only way to speak english, and not that bastardized colonial way.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:52 pm
“The few who tried quickly came back to their senses and happily accepted The Queen’s English as the only way to speak english, and not that bastardized colonial way.”
Oh pray, do tell, what on earth is the “Queen’s English”, where is it spoken and by whom?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:20 pm
By teachers like the one who told my husband:
“Martin, it’s your turn. In your best Queen’s English, please.”
I roll my eyes in his general direction. Even the Queen has drifted downmarket in terms of language during her reign.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Oh wow John, I believe you have stirred up quite a hornets nest this time.
I live in the US, I work for a German company. I have a co-worker who is British.
This is an interesting blog.
As there are many dialects in Germany, and in the UK, there are also just as many dialects in the US.. Each with their own slang. Personally, I find people in the US from the North East, and Deep South hard to understand some times, as they are quite different in terms of accent and slang. I also find it just as hard to understand my co-worker from the UK.. Different words, different pronunciations. What I find funny is the use of very odd words when some of my German co-workers use English. They put some words in wrong places, and leave others completely out.. Some of it I can attribute to learning BE.. Some of it I believe is a mixture of Deutsch and AE. For example: “We didn’t take breakfast in this morning”
“I am sorry you spent your holliday at hospital” “We should be for making the better looking version of the thing”
See what I mean?
>Sabine
“The other day we had a surprise visit in class from an 18-year-old from Texas, who was quite happy to display his shocking lack of ignorance in matters linguistic and political. After one year of careful deconstruction of anti-American prejudices, he ruined my hard work at one fell swoop.”
Please, please, please, please, do not let this one bad encounter with a “Southerner” (as we call them where I am from) ruin your perception of all Americans. People from the south tend to be a little more prejudice and ignorant of things not from the South. (NOT EVERYONE from the south is like this, but there are a LOT that are)
There are a lot of Americans that use better english, and have a better understanding of political matters than your surprise guest.
John: I hate using generalizations so much, but in a discussion like this, its almost impossible not to do. Not to mention the fact that SOMEONE will disagree with your generalization because they’re one of the few people that do not fit it and will become upset that you made it.. Why does no one understand that a generalization does not mean EVERYONE, but MOST?
Scott
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:20 am
yay. i was quoted, because i said british english sounds better, and doing a grammar mistake in the same sentence. it is even the favourite one of sebastian \o/ i won this discussion, can be closed now
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:51 am
Wait… Am I not getting something? Didn’t Sabine say “lack of ignorance”? Doesn’t “lack” mean that something is missing? I’m a bit confused… Please help this poor English-learner out!
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:53 am
Hey Fabian, this English native speaker is just as confused. I think it was supposed to be either lack of knowledge, or just ignorance.
People from around these parts and especially that age are often proud of not knowing anything…
July 23rd, 2008 at 6:12 am
Ha! my own shocking lack of ignorance is exposed! Of course it ought to be lack of knowledge or level of ignorance or abyss of ignorance. An edit function would be nice
Scott, I believe the mangled sentences and the weird use or non-use of articles is just one of the general difficulties people encounter when learning a foreign languages and not at all the fault of British English or even of a particularly German handicap. Do you speak German at all? If so, you may have noticed that articles are a particularly thorny problem - in German even more so, because of the gender hassle. I find that even quite advanced students still get the odd article wrong, because it is really very difficult.
And never fear, I certainly won’t let that idiotic young man ruin my perception of Americans, although I’ve got to say I’ve only ever seen anyone that stunningly ignorant* on television, and I’d always thought these people were paid by sensationalist reporters to say these things. But it’s my job to give my students a balanced picture, and he really blew it. The boy who brought him to class was deeply embarrassed and apologized to me afterwards.
*we were reading Macbeth at the time and I thought it would be a nice idea to have a native speaker read a part (one of the few prose sections) - but to hear him stumble through the lines and then afterwards declare that this “Old English” wasn’t really read by anyone anymore and that he knew plenty of dumb kids who wouldn’t understand it (as if!)…
July 23rd, 2008 at 8:31 am
@Sabine: einfach nicht ignorieren…
July 23rd, 2008 at 8:43 am
“we were reading Macbeth at the time and I thought it would be a nice idea to have a native speaker read a part (one of the few prose sections) - but to hear him stumble through the lines and then afterwards declare that this “Old English” wasn’t really read by anyone anymore and that he knew plenty of dumb kids who wouldn’t understand it (as if!)…”
Well, he IS partly correct. That type of English is in fact NOT spoken anymore, which means that most English speakers nowadays would need some form of training in order to be able to enunciate and narrate it correctly. This is the reason why we have specially trained Shakespeare actors, which is probably what you would have needed and not some 18 year old with no idea of 16th century English literature.
Would an 18 year old German native speaker be able to correctly narrate 16th century German literature?
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:57 pm
“Would an 18 year old German native speaker be able to correctly narrate 16th century German literature?”
not perfectly, but it would be possible i think
July 23rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm
“not perfectly, but it would be possible i think”
Well, you’d have to be fairly well educated or trained to be able to properly read and enunciate 16th century English literature. That type of language just isn’t in use anymore.
July 23rd, 2008 at 5:46 pm
To my students, however, it is many times more foreign and they managed to do a pretty good job.
>That type of language just isn’t in use anymore.
Yet Shakespeare remains wildly popular. Come on. I wasn’t expecting a new John Gielgud or anything, just basic reading competence of a scene in prose. If learners of English can do it, a native speaker ought to be able to do it, too.
July 23rd, 2008 at 6:14 pm
I find it neat how Shakespeare’s English is sometimes more simililar to modern German with “Thou hast…” and such!
July 27th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
a german once said to me when i was in the gymnasium trying desperately to make friends, that in order to speak american english, all you have to do is chew some bubblegum and proceed. i laughed a little, but was also a bit offended. Is that really what some germans think about AE? it was the first i’d ever heard of it…
July 27th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
That is exactly what everyone says about American English here. I’ve even heard teachers say it…
July 28th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
“People tend to invent all sorts of nouns and verbs and make words that shouldn’t be. I think we have to be a bit careful; otherwise the whole thing can get rather a mess.”
“We must act now to insure that English — and that, to my way of thinking, means English English — maintains its position as the world language well into the next century.”
I think that’s what Prince Charles would have to say about this…
July 30th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
>> Would an 18 year old German native speaker be able to correctly narrate 16th century German literature?
Let me think… 16th century, hm.
What about the Luther Bible, more or less the birth of what is called “Hochdeutsch” today, completed in 1534. So yes, I think it’s very well possible, as long as it’s not an original printed in Fraktur.
However, some might even have problems reciting Goethe, though that may be a problem with reading in general, unfortunately.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I agree. And not just because i always got bad marks for using american english (our teacher was a brit-loving bitch) ^_^
August 1st, 2008 at 6:19 am
Oh, I can’t pass this up. The best English is, of course, in Canada. Well, except for in Quebec and Newfoundland, of course.
The Canadian accent is not dissimilar from the AE often heard on the national US evening news shows, and generally has very clear enunciation. It’s not usually easy to use accent alone to determine whether your co-worker is from Vancouver, or from some muskrat-infested bog in northern Manitoba.
There are far fewer “like’s” and “y’know’s” in use (there’s need to mention “eh”) compared to in the US.
Popular (American) opinion to the contrary, “about” is NOT pronounced “aboot”. It’s just got a sort of Canadian sound, more formally known as the “Canadian raising.”
If a Canadian goes to England, it’s generally easy for them to pass their accent off as American, especially by using some carefully chosen Americanisms. Whether doing that’s a good idea is a different topic.
In the US, a Canadian accent usually puts one in the “friendly neighbour”, uh, “neighbor” category. However, when someone with an English accent is visiting the US, Americans can never quite shake their vague suspicion that the visitor may, in fact, be a foreigner.
Canada are content to use British spellings, except when it makes no sense.
So, think of the advantages if one learns Canadian English (CE) instead! The very best part: any inconsistencies or errors can be attributed to a critic’s poor understanding of the lesser known CE. You might slip something through by saying something like: “Well you see, in Canada they often spell it the way I did. Of course, the variant you mentioned is also acceptable.”
August 1st, 2008 at 7:06 am
“English is the world language because of America, not because of England”
Hahaha. So, the fact that England had colonies all over the world wasn’t the major reason that English is the world language?
August 7th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I absolutely agree with what Curtis wrote.
All this is what I experienced as well.
a) English spoken in the UK is as good (or bad) as English spoken in the US. It`s good or bad in a different way, maybe, but the overall quality is not noticeably better on either side.
b) Which is easier to understand (BE or AE) is a matter of “exposure” rather than an absolute quality of BE/AE.
I don`t have any problems with understanding AE- my fiance is American, I watch a lot of US movies, and I´ve spent quite a few months in the USA.
BE is much harder for me, but I´m sure that, had I spend more time in Great Britain and my fiance was English, it´d be the opposite.
Also: which is easier to understand, High German or Swiss German? Well, ask a Swiss guy and a German, and you will get two answers.
c) It seems to me it´s a very German thing: the need for choosing ONE English accent as the (”officially confirmed”) better one.
Why´s that?
Britons don`t do that all the time, and neither do Americans.
The British and American people I know are extremely relaxed about different accents- some even show a certain fascination.
They might be smiling about “funny words” or the unfamiliar sound, but they do it in a well-disposed way.
Really- it´s always the Germans who are unrelaxed and split into two parties (with any member of the opposite party being considered almost a traitor).
________________________________________________________
Curtis wrote:
I really don’t see what all the fuss is all about. I’m an American that’s been teaching English for over 11 years in Austria, and I’ve yet to see any important differences between BE and AE. I teach my students/pupils Standard English, so that they can be understand anywhere in the world. If we encounter a word like “color”, then I explain to them that there’s another spelling variation “colour”, and that it’s far more important to consistently stick to one style of spelling and pronunciation than it is to worry about whether AE is better than BE and vice versa.
I also encounter a lot of bias and b*llshit regarding the so-called superiority that BE is supposed to have over AE. People here swear that there’s something inherently better about British English, for example British people supposedly speak more clearly, use better grammar, use less slang, etc., etc., yet hardly any of these Austrians or Germans have ever been to England to actually hear how people there communicate. For the record, I’ve been to England several times, and I can assure you all that the British do NOT speak a superior form of English to the Americans. As a matter of fact, they speak so badly there that most of the times you can hardly understand what they’re trying to tell you. A large percentage use appallingly bad grammar, swallow or mumble all their words and use the most unclear and confusing accents I’ve ever heard. What most Austrians/Germans don’t know, or what their teachers never teach them in school, is that what they call British English is spoken by a minority of British speakers - mostly educated professionals who reside in London. Everyone else speaks some form of insufferable dialect that requires subtitles in films (even in English speaking countries!) in order to be understood.
The English language in England is being so badly mutilated that CNN reported several months on accent schools in London, whose only purpose is to train British speakers on the correct usage of English language. Apparently, so many Brits are now being turned down for jobs because of their bad English or incomprehensible accent, that people are now having to resort to accent school in order to polish their grammar and develop a more neutral, professional sounding accent.
So much for the superiority of British English!
August 8th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
I remember watching the OV of Chicken Run in English class back in school, and how our teacher, a quite competent guy, named all the different British accents therein + the stereotypes associated with them! (Sadly I don’t recall details anymore. Only in the case of the hen with the tartan scarf, because this is so obvious…)
August 12th, 2008 at 5:50 am
British English is simply a lot more classy and stylish. It sounds and looks just as distinguished and clean as the culture it represents. That’s why I prefer it over American English any time. What’s more: In England, I never came across even a fraction of those dreadful mutilations Americans constantly inflict on their language, like for instance “Nite” instad of “Night”, “L8er” instead of “later” etc. Stuff like that, in my opinion, is a sign of linguistic decay.
Personally, in the late 80s/early 90s, I had the choice between studying in the US and studying in Great Britain. Guess where I spent three years of my life. Guess where I got my BA in the end…
August 12th, 2008 at 6:01 am
PS: Just for the records: US immigration has left quite a few stamps in my passport(s) as well. I’ve been mostly to New York City and to Talahassee, but I’ve also spent some time in North Carolina. I had been taught British English by some teachers, and American English by others, and I have no problems whatsoever with either version.
August 13th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Ute wrote:
In England, I never came across even a fraction of those dreadful mutilations Americans constantly inflict on their language, like for instance “Nite” instad of “Night”, “L8er” instead of “later” etc. Stuff like that, in my opinion, is a sign of linguistic decay.
__________________________________
Interesting.
First, I experienced the exact opposite.
Whenever I come across something like “i luv 2 talk 2 u kiz cuz ur cool” it’s definitely written by a Briton. AMericans don’t do it to that extent.
Second, “nite”, “lite”, etc. are mutilations, yes.
But language is organic- it develops and changes (this also applies to what we call “British English” today, right?)
Why would that be a sign of linguistic decay?
It’s so funny- as I mentioned above (August 9th or so), it’s always the Germans who have the need to take sides with either the British or the Americans. It seems like taking sides with the one party makes you an enemy for the other party.
Why does it seem to be impossible to grant each English “dialect” their own benefits?
August 19th, 2008 at 5:48 am
I’m not taking sides. It’s a matter of preference, of taste, if you like. British English simply has a nicer ring to it.
Maybe it’s something to do with the fact that American English is (in Germany at least) often associated with loud, obtrusive American tourists who noisily stomp through our churches and seem to regard the whole of Europe as one giant amusement park, erected for their personal pleasure, and to be raced through in a single week. If that. [g]
(How’s that for a topic for your blog?
)
August 24th, 2008 at 6:45 am
to alleviate your irritation john i will tell you the reason why germans do not learn english the correct, the american way.
in places outside the ozarks it is considered not quite chic to sound like you’ve skinned a squirrel for breakfast.
also having just recently lived down a certain reputation for unilateral tourism germans don’t want to be met with the same kind of warm hospitality americans enjoy wherever they go.
September 13th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
“If a German is going to visit long lost relatives whose ancestors emigrated to an English speaking country, or vice versa, then those relatives will almost certainly be speaking with an American dialect.”
You don’t speak ‘with a dialect’ - you just speak a dialect. You can, however, speak with an American accent.
I do so hate it when people mix ‘dialect’ and ‘accent’ up.
Oh, and ‘emigrate’ only has one ‘m’ in it. Unlike ‘immigrate’ which has two as it comes from ‘in’ and ‘migrate’ so the first ‘n’ has mutated into an ‘m’ to make it easier to pronounce.
But heck.. what am I saying… you’re the American and I’m just the Brit. You know better, right?
October 10th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Since when do german pupils learn English for going to the cinema and talking to tourists? I don’t think teachers are meant to teach what “We should have had shotguns for this kinda deal” means. They should set a basis for an understanding of literature, scientific documents and so on, not for going to california and ordering a burger.
If you leave semantics out, ie if you teach your pupils why some people summarise, while some people summarize, and what the difference is, they’re fine, no need to lead them one way or the other. However: when i hear some german kid speak english like clint eastwood, i think it’s just wrong. Another thing i want to throw into the discussion: couldn’t it be argued that british english is the better english? After all, american english is “a set of dialects of the English language” (wp) and nothing more than than, it is one of the descendants of what i like to call proper english, and i don’t think america being a ginormous country with lots of people is enough reason for us europeans to pick up their dialect in an intellectual context. so there 
hope i wasn’t to mean, keep it up,
stefano.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
“English is the world language because of America, not because of England, so it only makes sense to learn America’s version.”
Mate I know you guys try, but you havnt built up an empire that is anywhere near as influential as the british empire that spread english throughout the world.
On another note though, I really doubt that the germans learn oxford english. I grew up in australia and coming to germany was the worst thing I could ever do to my english! The germans speak german english, its their own bloody language.
October 25th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I see it that way: there is English and there is American English. It’s not about what country is more important or bigger. It’s about the root of the language. I never get why actors often say they speak with British accent. That’s no accent! That’s English!
October 25th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
how was it when you first once learn righty luebke-english?
October 25th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Well, I graduated this year and at our school we were taught BE until we were 13 or 14 and from this time on we were free to choose the BE or AE in the tests, we were only corrected if we mixed the different words in one text!
October 26th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
What do you want from a people, who give college students the choice to learn latin or french as second foreign languages. So you’re lucky if you have or your children will learn french - if you’re unlucky it is taught by a teacher who thinks, that Sartre and Charles Aznavour are the crowns of creation and that Jacques Higelin is what french youngsters hear today.
I’m tired of hearing those arguments brought up for latin! Why shall a child learn a dead language, that perhaps will it make easier to learn a living one, if you can learn a living languages which can help you to learn other living languages. I know few people who started learning latin to learn french, spanish or italian afterwards, one the other hand I’m not the only person I know who took advantage from mastering french to learn latin, italian and spanish.
I hope, Mrs. von der Leyen will start a campaign against Latin (as alcohol and cigarettes it should not be handed out to minors) and for a better choice of living foreign languages at german schools.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Wow - this post is still going strong. Well, I’ll add my mustard to it too so.
I believe learning British English is the sensible thing to do in Europe. We’re not learning English to improve our chances of trading - if that was the case, we’d be learning Mandarin
English is taught to provide students with a foreign language - that enables them to get insight into other cultures, and to communicate with non-German speakers all over the world. Since Britain is in Europe and so is Germany, the English we use as lingua franca is a simplified British English. What good would it do to learn the Los Angeles variety of American English? To better understand Hollywood movies in original?
And for the grammar and spelling - please! What difference does it make if I learn to spell Farbe as color or colour? There’s no measureable efficiency gain
But apart from that and the fact that if you’re taught either of the two varieties well, you’ll understand and be able to deal with users of the other variety … The real problem are the teachers!
Most English teachers in Germany are a joke. How can anyone expect to learn English from a German person who themselves has never learnt anything other than plain artificial Oxford English?
As a matter of fact, I dare claim that 12 years of Oxford English at school will NOT prepare you for a semester abroad in Oxford, let alone England, not to mention Ireland, Australia or - point taken - America. As long as there is this linguistic incest going on in Germany, Germans will never learn proper English - A or B-E
October 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I learned about the different pronunciation of AE and BE when I was a student and travelled in USA. There are two occasions I especially remember:
1) I met a guy from GB and well, he sounded very oxfordish, and when we walked a street he was stopped by a girl who asked him to say something. “Anything?” he asked and she already started giggling, and when he continued asking her what this was about, she burst out laughing: “I love your accent. I just love it!”
2) I was in a hostel for a couple of days and enjoyed the mix of people from many European and other countries. We all used English of course to talk with each other. There was just one group who seemed not to speak English at all, so nobody was able to communicate with them. One of them talked to me one evening and I was sorry, for I couldn’t make out the language. Later an American mentioned them: “Those English, they do have a strange accent, don’t they?”
October 30th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Oh you are so right!
English teaching in german schools is really weird.
Best example: On a 4 weeks trip to england, the british people could easily understand my kind of english (the version that people actually speak, not the oxford one) and even thought i was joking when telling them that i come from germany. As my english was very good back then and they could hardly tell that i come from a non-english speaking country.
Guess what? Back in school, in the next exam i got a 5 (E) for my sooo bad english that everybody on earth could understand easily, except my oooxford teacher, who was so proud of his english (that even the GBs don’t speak).
October 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
When I was in 12th grade advanced English course, the first question of our teacher was “Who has been in the US?” and after she got a few responses she said “You won’t get better than a three (mark C).”
And she was right.
On the other hand she was a native speaker from Scotland, so that example is a bit skewed.
October 30th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
You said America is a cultural superpower. If you were british, i would assume this as an ironic statement, but since you’re American, you probably mean it. I pity you so much you don’t know. Poor poor sod.
October 31st, 2008 at 2:22 pm
So, Americans don’t speak Oxford English? Big deal. Heck, even British people don’t speak Oxford English.
As a German, I therefore conclude that English is the hardest language in the world. Not even native speakers manage to even remotely master the language…only Germans appear to come close to true perfection in English.
Or so I learnt at school and real life.
October 31st, 2008 at 9:06 pm
…the standards of a world economic and cultural super power…
wow!
I see the american movies with original german language
I am a member of a country of 80 million inhabitants, it is big enough for me. I only use english while traveling ( not to England and not to the USA ) I have a heavy german accent, but the Greek have a greek accent and the Spanish -> exactly!
I do not need the US and A, if there were build a wall around it I would be happy with that. Americans and chinese and polish and turkish and so on people shall live long and prosper, I am not interested in what they do, as long as they leave me alone.
I did not visit the US (and A
and I will never do, the presence of firearms in private hands make me nervous, the use of death penalty is rude. Is there a word like barbaric?
In computer forums I say:
Bye
November 1st, 2008 at 9:11 pm
The real reason BE is still being taught is that it’s easier to learn the full language and then dumb it down to 400 words when speaking to your average victim of the US education system than vice versa - sorry, “the other way ’round”.
Of course school kids have to be kept humble by frustration. The present selection of English teachers manages to achieve that - as well as to keep lots of commercially useless personnel out of the workforce and off the dole*, too!
Of course by the original author’s reasoning (He who pays the piper calls the, er, dialect) we’d better start learning Chinese. Competent teachers will be supplied for free.
—-
*Not the banana company.
November 2nd, 2008 at 12:36 am
“English is the world language because of America, not because of England,..” - This is absolutely not true…think of english imperialism in the late 19th century and the commonwealth…
November 2nd, 2008 at 1:54 am
In my opinion, American (the term American English is detested in GB) is way too “lazy” or “shortened” to be teached. In private discussions thats fine for me, for business or formal events I’ll say Los Angeles instead “LA” as an example. Or with phonenumbers, why use the “o” when it is a 0 ?
You should learn the correct language as a basic, the slang is coming anyway and talking English, most people will understand you. Talking American is quite different.
November 8th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Hi, first of all: Awesome website !!! Love it !!! And everything you said above is true, though sadly enough few (well, barely any…) teachers would agree. As you wrote, watching undubbed movies is an important part in learning a language; students both get native speakers and (more or less) interesting flics.
The problem is, we barely have American (U.S., that is) lecturers, assistant professors etc. whereas the British seem to be invading us (out of about 10 assistant professors I know, one is from the U.S., while four are from G.B.). And of course, there are still people who think British-English is better(?) than A.E., for whatever reason…
Anyway, hope you keep this site up and running !!!
[btw.: I’m one of those few teachers that ONLY uses American English ;)]
November 9th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I think the topic has been blown out of all proportion. Most German students of English remain at a rather mediocre level throughout their school years and therefore make many more serious mistakes than choosing the wrong spelling, BE or AE - whatever your opinion is on that. The most important thing is, to become effective communicators in English, and until that is achieved (which often isn’t) I think even mixing the two versions of English is a rather benign mistake.
It is also true, that some accents in both countries can be a challenge for foreigners, but comparing news-presenters from both countries I find the English presenters’ accent much more attractive.
Interesting web-site by the way
Tom
P.S. Whoever finds more than 3 mistakes in my English is entitled to keep them!
November 18th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Just out of curiosity WHICH “American” do you mean? Possibly General American English? Which is basically the accent of, umm, Canada, or would it be the Texan Drawl? Or would it be the New England Twang, or perhaps the New York ‘r-less’ accent? Would you pronounce “out” as in “awt”? Would you have them say ‘caw-fee’?
Now as for idiom, I am with you. Learning what ‘a-levels’ are doesnt help anyone much, unless you actually have to write them, But as far as accents go I don’t really think you have a case.
There is no ideal accent. Very few people actually speak in a General American English accent, (in fact more Canadians speak closer to GAE than Americans do), nor do many people speak in the Received Pronunciation (about 2% of the population), which is what you mean when you say “Oxford English”.
I will agree however that if you had to make a choice as to which accent would make most accessible most media and English speaking travelers I would say that GAE is preferable over RP. Also, most Germans I know find GAE easier to understand than RP. It is also somewhat more consistent. Not to mention that “controversy” has TWO r’s dammit. Whatever the idiots on BBC think.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American
November 24th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
ohne scheiß, du bist so nen riesen dummschwätzer!
November 25th, 2008 at 9:57 am
hi, i just happened to stumble across this blog and i love it. very good articles and lots of discussion.
concerning the issue on hand, i’d like to share my biggest problem with AE and BE. for 20 years now i work with americans and also lived there for some time. i guess i have acquired an interesting mix of texan drawl over rhenish “sing-sang”. anyway, the reason i have language-problems is helping my kids with their english-homework. we usually end up in heated discussion about the usuage of words and/or phrases. the reason - you guessed it - being my use of AE opposed to their use of BE. as i learned my version of english “by doing”, i seldom recognize/know the differences between AE and BE. oh well.
bueggel
November 26th, 2008 at 12:21 am
“Mickey Mouse doesn’t speak with a British accent.”
the doctor does
i really liked your other blogs, but i think, that this one is very bad (as you already expected from a german). The question is: Why should a german learn english at all? And why is english the commen language in europe? (particularly when you keep in mind, that the britains are not even a member of the economic union and still use their pound instead of the euro)
btw: can you pls start a blog like this for french? i think, that this would really top this blogs about deutschland-vs-america
November 29th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
This is ridiculous. American English and British English are almost entirely alike. The differences among regional varieties of the English language in general are minimal compared to the differences among German dialects.
Compare a Plattdüütsch speaker in Hamburg to a Wianerisch speaker in Vienna: They’ll share absolutely no common vocabulary, the grammar is entirely different, and they wouldn’t be able to communicate, weren’t they both able to speak Standard German as well. (Their definitions of “Standard German” may vary (Austrian German vs. High German), but they’re largely compatible.)
Just as Vienna and Hamburg, Philadelphia and Chicago are about a 1000 km apart. Differences in pronounciation are barely audible; the grammar is completely the same.
Between the US and the UK you will of course notice the different pronounciation, also the vocabulary differs a little, but the grammar still remains the same (apart from the Americans’ tendency to handle it a little sloppier in casual conversation).
Arguing which English students should learn is pretty pointless — most won’t get rid of their German accent for their whole life (I haven’t, and I consume English media a lot as well as talking to Americans on a regular basis). Now who cares whether someone has a more American or a more British German accent?
November 29th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
sure… and the US is the center of the world and the root of the English language…
hm damn, or was it the UK? i just cant remember that tiny fact
November 30th, 2008 at 8:01 am
If the evolution of the US population of hispanic origin continues, travellers to the US of A better start learning Spanish rather than English.
Clinton blew saxophon, Bush blew the economy, and Obama wishes to be an “instrument (of God)” (cit.) by himself. Maybe the next POTUS will be a Mariachi…
November 30th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
English and American English Quote ‘This is ridiculous. American English and British English are almost entirely alike.’unquote
Take the following example (one of many!): if, in the UK you tell a Baker that you ‘like his buns’, you can ONLY be talking about his (Sweet)Pastries etc and be thanked for the compliment. In America on the otherhand, you will either receive (at the very least) a verbal rebuke or have found a gay Baker. The reason being that ‘Buns’ in AE is a word for the Postierior!!!
November 30th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
What about European English?
This bastardisation of both AE and BE is driving me mental… as a colonial with historical ties to England and current cultural ties far closer to the US I am ‘bilingual’ - however the use of words in European business English doesn’t fit to either language.
For example projects are realised, not implemented.
Not my cup of tea means “not my problem”
things are interpretated
“shall” is a valid form for all expressions of possible outcome (customers shall enjoy our new range)
services are concentrated - not merged, converged or streamlined…
or am i the only one who finds this in business reading material?
And on the street we get “haeh? what the sh*t f*ck ay?”
December 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pm
My supervisor always says “Wir sind gut gestuffed”, meaning that she thinks our department is well manned.
Laugh up my sleeve everytime I hear this manager babble.
Even when she doesn’t know, she is accidentally right most of the time. We are really stuffed with work, because we are understaffed.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
The first time I realized there was a difference between AE and BE was in an English test in 5th grade. I wrote color instead of colour (which was in the book) and it only was underlined and not counted as a mistake. That´s when I started liking AE.
I surely had more contact with Americans and as a result developed an American accent. I was lucky to have a teacher who appreciated that when I had LK-English later on.
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
True! My teacher always [messed] up, ’cause i always used AE. For me, sorry, BE sounds gay
Editor’s Note: This is a family program here.
February 19th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
A major with AE (as far as I know) is, that there is no decent institute doing research on the field of AE - in contrast to BE where we have Oxford with its yearly edition of the Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary. There just isn’t any comparable resource when it comes to American English (just according to my knowledge of course).
This also holds true for the German language - the “Duden” is no official document but a collection of definitions published by a private company (Bertelsmann). But it’s a well-known resource one can (mostly) rely on.
March 12th, 2009 at 2:46 am
Most comments are way off base.
I have lived in Canada and the U.S. for the last 49 years.
Clearly American English has conquered the world.
Whenever I’m in London and hear two Englishmen talking it sounds very gayish. Can’t stand it.
Americans have simplified the English language.
Australians and New Zealanders would’ve been better to
speak AE. Now when I hear them speak I understand only half what they are talking about.
The fact that a few former colonies speak BE is totally irrelavant.
Japanese, Chinese and all of Latin America learn and speaks
AE. If you check into a Tokyo Hotel the girls at the reception all speak AE. BE won’t help you there.
And lest we forget the root of English is Germanic.
Why would they call themselves Anglo-Saxon?
Angeln lies in Northern Germany and southern Denmark and Saxony in central Germany.
The German culture ministry must be crazy to insist that
students must learn so-called “Oxford” English. Besides it
sounds so snobbish and nothing is to be gained to learn BE.
Better stick with a winner. American English. - England is on downward spiral ever since they lost their post WWII colonies. Their industry is in shambles and there is really nothing produced any more which world markets want to buy. Maybe a Roll Royce, but that company is now owned by
BMW and Bentley is owned by VW.
Well I guess you get my drift. Learn AE, you won’t regret it.
March 12th, 2009 at 9:43 am
>> Angeln lies in Northern Germany and southern Denmark and Saxony in central Germany.
The current federal state of Saxony is in Central/East Germany.
The historic region of the Saxon tribe, which is the Saxony you’re referring to, actually is almost identical with today’s federal state of Lower Saxony, which is indeed Northern Germany, as well.
And yes, you can still hear the similarities, especially when comparing the Low German language (Plattdeutsch) and Dutch (which is essentially an evolved version of Low German) with English.
Woohoo, I did the explainer again.
On AE vs BE: I think we Germans should learn both… which is more or less how it’s done in schools. Great Britain is part of Europe and our history is undividably connected. So of course, we should learn BE.
The EU member countries are dependent on each other nowadays. It’s more and more becoming a ‘we’ instead of ‘us’ and ‘them’.
Seeing the whole world, it’s right. AE is so common in many places: the media, the internet, business communication. Not knowing about the differences would be a disadvantage.
However, noone ever said humans couldn’t learn more than two foreign languages.
March 12th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Wenn ich nur eines von beiden auch nur ansatzweise perfekt beherrschen würde, dann wäre es mir egal ob BE oder AE. Mit beidem kann man sich verständigen…
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 am
I am suprised that you consider most germans would disagree with your opinion. When I was at the age of 11 and my english-teachers explained that there are some things different in US English .. I wondered, why we have to learn the british way. By the way: That happened by the word “Aufzug” and British “Lift” and US “Elevator” are really very strange to each other.
But at another thing you are right: As I tryed to powerup my english by watching US-Movies with original voices .. i got penalties for my US-Slang and Sound.
Germany can sometimes be very stupid.
April 9th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
While AE has more speakers (heck, the USA simply have more people than the UK :D), I think that BE sounds much better. Also, I, personally, like the more complete/non-simplified writing of BE better (ie. colour vs. color).
BTW: At school, we didn’t get bad marks when choosing for or against BE/AE spelling, and as long as the teacher understood what we said, the pronunciation was no killer argument for or against one mark either.
April 12th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Hangy,
you’ve got it mixed up.
AE has simplified the language.
Color = AE
Colour = BE
Harbor = AE
Harbour = BE
I also don’t like the way the English pronounce “schedule.”
In BE it is schaedule.
In AE it is Skedule.
Got it?
April 16th, 2009 at 9:36 am
hangy:
> Also, I, personally, like the more complete/non-simplified writing of BE better (ie. colour vs. color).
Harry Hansen:
> Hangy, you’ve got it mixed up. AE has simplified the language. Color = AE
Colour = BE
Duh!
April 17th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Tcherman, I think your elevator is not going all the way to the top.
April 17th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
No, in fact he ran up the escalators and reached the top faster than you.
April 18th, 2009 at 3:29 am
There are no escalators in the Empire State Building. Just elevators
and stairs, you knucklehead.
April 18th, 2009 at 11:24 am
And you’re King Kong or what?
April 18th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
King Kong climbed up the building on the OUTSIDE.
April 18th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
But just because he didn’t fit the staircase… or the main entrance.
April 18th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Then he should sue them for discrimination …
June 8th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Sooo große unterschiede gibt es doch gar nicht. Ob man nun color mit oder ohne u (colour) schreibt, lift oder elevator schreibt, customize mit z oder s, man wird doch so oder so verstanden. Und egal welche aussprache ich lerne, es wird immer zig dialekte geben, an denen ich mich dann später reibe. Auch in GB selbst spricht kaum jemand dieses Oxford-English. Und ein typisches American-English gibt es in den USA iin vielen gegenden auch nicht unbedingt. Das meiste versteht man mehr oder minder, aber in jedem land gibts dann gewisse ecken, wo du glaubst, aliens sind gelandet…
June 19th, 2009 at 6:41 am
We must learn American English at school (in our school). So you can’t genneralize this. Only the older people have learnd “Oxford English”.
June 19th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
@Florian: It actually depends on your English teacher. I’m not THAT much older than you (I guess) and have had British English (”Oxford English”) in school.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am
moin!
i’m german, but i definitely agree to the whole article - exept the last sentence ;p
i kind of hate myself for this d*mn british accent, but hopefully in some years (especially after travelling/living) in the us that accent won’t remain… *hehe*
if i were still a student, i’d forward this blog to all my english teachers… lol
alright, thx for makin me laugh when readin this stuff…
July 7th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
a German reading this article would disagree- well then I am a counterexample. It makes perfect sense for me to learn American English. But I’m different, I also learn Irish and Scottish and Australian and New Zealand English, Carribean English even some Tok Pisin(funny stuff, you should try).
Well, in America you say “Ja”(Yaa instead of Yes, very nice) and the massive German emmigration and German language isles like “Pensylvania Dutch” “Amish” “Hutterian” and “Texas German” and also Yiddish have influenced the American Englsih toward being a little more German than British English which in turn is being influenced by celtic languages like Welsh and Irish mainly, these influences lost in America. - well Spanish a big candidate reflecting the french influence in England, which i shouldn’t tell any spanish, french or english.
But, the proximity and Ryanair make British English also an excellent choice. Not because the British don’t visit Germany, they do, but because we Germans visit Britain or Ireland in order to practise our English.
A weekendtrip to London costs 80 Euro for the flight plus accomodation and food. And Ireland is so beautiful, I can tell you.
One last remark you wrote:
“English is the world language because of America, not because of England, ”
What would the Empire and the Commonwealth think of that? Certainly in India people learn English because they belonged to the Empire not to America, even America belonged to the Empire, well, I know you had your struggles. There are a lot of Indians, New Zealanders and Pakistanis that speak excellent British English and that is partly because a lot of them do have relatives in the UK.
In terms of economy though you’re right. BigMacs and Whoppers sell, while noone likes steak with mintsauce. but don t consume too many of them.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Sebastian, are you implying that Indians speak English ? One thing they never managed is the non-verbal part. We keep our necks from wobbling when we speak. In addition, they translate idioms from their particular background and think that is English. Then , the intonation - . Empire - Commonwealth ? Ya, AE is different from BE. For one thing, Americans took the class-consciousness out of the language when they freed themselves from British rule. They found it undemocratic in their liberal society to classify yourself according to the accent of a certain place of higher learning. I think that is the real reason why AE has become the language of the youth culture. It is unpretensious and generous : hardly anybody speaks it entirely properly and so a foreign speaker will not encounter criticism or stares.
A word tothe wise:don’t EVER, EVER correct a native speaker. It is rude, snooty, annoying - did I mention rude? - and leads nowhere. Language is used and as such, it adjusts, changes and what is incorrect today will find its way into dictionaries tomorrow.
So - just go ahead. Be brave, be daring. Speak and you will be heard. And if the reaction you get is not what you expected, explore. And avoid the pitfalls of false cousins.” “I am sensible” does not mean “ich bin sensible.”
August 27th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
I haven’t read all comments, so I might be duplicating someone else, but… why the fuss over BE/AE, when all I ever hear is Germans speaking English (or French or any other language) with a very heavy German accent? I really wouldn’t know whether they were speaking BE or AE…
It might help if they stopped dubbing their foreign-language films and TV shows - that way people would at least be exposed to native speakers speaking some variant of English, so they wouldn’t just be copying each others mistakes. Being just a little chauvinistic: I think we chose the better option of subtitling here in the Netherlands, and I think that’s one of the reasons we’re fairly well aware of pronunciation differences between AE and BE. Most people do have problems distinguishing between AE and BE words, like pavement/sidewalk, elevator/lift, etc. In the end, I think all of us together will create some kind of ‘world English’, a simplified version of English used for communication between non-English speakers that don’t speak each other’s language. (A fairly recent phenomenon in the Netherlands is Dutch TV presenters speaking English with German guests; somehow they seem to think English is easier than German…)
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Hey.
This is so true. I always used the American way of writing words and this was a mistake in our class tests… This is so stupid. I mean, it’s still correct English, it can’t be a mistake even if it’s not Oxford English?
btw, nice blog!
October 13th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Interesting discussion going on here: has anyone perhaps mentioned to the ‘Amis’ that it were in fact the English who invented this language? But I suppose it’s like trying to teach the Bavarians to speak proper German. Don’t even go there. Personally I’m not fuzzed as long as it’s clear what they are talking about: the remark of a passing by co-worker to her friend that her boss slapped her fanny had me reeling for quite a while until someone explained to me that she was talking about her bottom! So what DO they call the bit on the front then? Since I never had an American girlfriend, I never found out.
My personal impression whilst in America is that most Americans (even well educated ones) have very limited ideas about the world outside the US. While I was working there (this was the 1980s with the cold war at full swing) I was frequently asked whether I came from East-Berlin. When I pointed out that there was in fact a barbed-wire fence (ever heard of “The Wall”?) around east Germany and you were likely to be shot dead if you tried to cross it, most people would gasp in surprise and ask “Is it really that bad?” Yes Ma’am, it really is.
But the cracker came one evening at a dinner party (for our esteemed European business guests) when one of the ladies (academic herself) struck a conversation with my colleague David: after enquiring where he was from (Aberdeen, Scotland) she asked him how long he had been in the States (about 4 weeks).
Her answer: “Amazing how well you learned to speak our language in such short time!”
Needless to say we fell off our chairs laughing our heads off.
So you close your trunk, I close my boot and off we drive on different sides of the road. Makes perfect sense.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
I’m still learning english at school.We people in Germany grew up with BE and till the age of 12 I choosed to speek not anymore BE but AE.I chosed it because the pronunciation is much easier than of BE.And for example the word metre is translated(no idea for a better word)into AE meter and that’s the same as in German.But it’s not only that one example!Now i have to learn the american expressions because we learned more british ones.In the moment it’s not important to know that.But our teachers said that our choice has to be done till the A-level.And so my collection of words hasto grow.By the way is english after chemistry my favorite subject because it’s a very (that’s no insult) easy languge to learn.I noticed that when i got french!!!
Would bee nice if an American person could make a list of AE words and their translation.
October 14th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Just to help you learn more
:
It’s neither “choosed” nor “chosed”, it’s “chose”.
Also, your text could use a few more spaces, after full stops and exclamation marks for example.
Thus, you would be able to reduce that “wall of text” effect your comment is suffering from. Adding paragraphs would help, too.
I presume the other mistakes are more or less “slips of the pen” (Flüchtigkeitsfehler, wusste ich bis eben auch noch nicht :)).
November 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Diese Aussage ist natürlich völlig falsch. Jedes Land auf der Welt lernt britisches Englisch, gerade weil es die ursprüngliche Form ist und nicht so furchtbar verwaschen wie amerikanisches Englisch. Ausserdem wurde Englisch durch England als Besatzungsmacht verbreitet und nicht durch Amerika. Der Vergleich mit Rätroromanisch ist der schlechteste, den ich je gehört habe. Eine Sprache, die höchstens 200.000 Mann sprechen, mit einer Sprache von 55 Millonen zu vergleichen ist einfach unseriös.
November 8th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Yeah I really hate how they make you learn British English…
I like the American Version way better and thankfully I got a teacher now that accepts that…(I just spent a year in the USA)
One teacher I had before gave the people using AE worse grades than the ones using BE, which I think doesn’t make any sense…
I also just don’t like the sound of British accents, to be honest…
I love English, it’s my absolutely favorite class…
November 10th, 2009 at 8:10 am
While I don’t deny that you have a point here as far as the general attitude in Germany is concerned I think that you of all the people should appreciate the desire to learn the original language and not some twisted copy of it that has been heavily influenced by a multitude of other cultures (including German) for a couple of centuries. If the original American culture would have its say you wouldn’t be speaking English today at all. Think about it this way: if you wanted to learn German as a foreign language Austria or Switzerland wouldn’t be your first choice of countries to do it in, right? Noone in Austria would demand that people should learn their version of the language even though there are probably more foreign tourists visiting the alps than there are visiting popular places in Germany. Besides, American English and its British flavor ain’t all that different. Granted, if I would ask someone if the US if I could “bum a fag” I might get into trouble, but there is only a limited number of cases where these subtle differences really matter. And from a cultural point of view, there is just so much more classic literature that is written in British English - they really have perfected the language in a way American authors lack (IMHO). If you don’t believe me, read “Three men in a boat” by Jerome K. Jerome. I’ve yet to read something even remotely comparable from an American author (from a language POV).
November 11th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Well, AE is the chewing gum language. It just sounds too broad and reminds me of the toothless redneck in Arkansas.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
@Well, AE is the chewing gum language. It just sounds too broad and reminds me of the toothless redneck in Arkansas.
Funny…coming from a guy named “Bo”
November 14th, 2009 at 6:11 am
id like to point out that england would sound more like america if they hadnt changed the way they speak. england decided to switch the way they pronounce vowels back in the 1700s and 1800s
November 14th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Cool Story Bo.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Some things from an English teacher in training:
1. Most books have switched to AE for some years
2. You don‘t get bad marks for using either of it, just don‘t mix it up - but even this is accepted (or tolerated) by many teachers at least if it comes to vocab
3. prospective teachers are usually advised to speak in a natural way i.e. to use the dialect they like. “Oxford English” is only a second choice for those who haven‘t acquired a proper accent
4. I speak an odd mixture of Scouse, Geordie, Scots, Irish and Cockney, which is perfectly o.k. in class, as long as I make sure that it doesn‘t get too hard for the students
5. The language is called ENGLISH for a reason
6. Spelling is a mess anyway, AE or BE doesn‘t matter - even worse than German spelling
7 With my students I do it the “Irish way” :Largely influenced by BE, use of some “ancient” forms, use of many AE words in contrast to that, don‘t give a feck about it, as “fish and chips” perfectly match “fries” on a menu (and they lived happily ever after)
January 6th, 2010 at 6:29 am
Ideally, a reconstructed 15th century (or perhaps early 18th century instead, before the BE/AE split) English pronunciation (with the additional advantage of being quite close to the spelling) would be taught to foreigners, especially Germans who would probably find the archaic pronunciation more familiar-sounding, and other pronunciation standards could easily be derived from it. However, perhaps we need not go that far. Clearly neither BE nor AE should be selected for a compromise. Much like Swiss when speaking High German, Scots speaking standard English, when they pay attention to clear enunciation, are said to be particularly easy to understand. Unlike RP, they sound all their Rs, do not have certain phonetic mergers, etc. They have an A which is essentially like the continental one.Scots also do not pronounce the vowels in “hey” or “boat” as diphthongs, which also sounds more familiar to speakers of other European languages who will often fail to pronounce these as diphthongs, as well. Just an idea
By the way, while it is indeed true that AE pronunciation is more conservative in some striking respects where BE has innovated in about the 18th century, this is not true in every respect. Personally, I favour BE (learned a strongly German-coloured textbook RP-oriented BE at school without realising how different it was from actual RP, then switched to AE also because of hearing it more often, and then back to BE again, first motivated by a loss of sympathy for the US, later by increasing sympathy for England, especially English rock music of the 60s to 80s). I find the dialectal variety of England fascinating and not all that maddening, so it’s not a point that bothers me; it actually endears BE to me. Those glo’l sto’ps are weird but fun. However, perhaps you can really speak of a “German English pronunciation” that is actually fairly consistent in some features (such as pronouncing the “-er” like in standard German, devoicing the ents of worts, failure to clearly distinguish “bad”, “bat”, “bed” and “bet”, failure to reduce unstressed words phonetically, etc.). Then most of us are speakers of GE in actual fact.
January 8th, 2010 at 3:43 am
Hey, I was taught English with the focus on Oxford English, but with the addition of the differences to the American English (lift vs. elevator, autumn vs. fall etc.)…I kind of liked that. However, I don’t understand why they still call it English in America? It should be American.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Good question, Lollipop! At which point can different ways to speak be considered seperate languages, because they are not similar enough anymore to be just different dialects of the same language?
As far as I can tell, this distinction is sometimes a bit vague and arbitrary - but to know for sure, you’d either have to be a linguist or a polyglot, and I am neither.
January 8th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
I’ve learned British English in the fifth and sixth grade and then American English up to the 13th.
I think we were taught British English just because after the WWII they “owned” Northern Germany (and that’s where I am from).
January 8th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
From Lerner & Lowe’s great 1958 musical, “My Fair Lady”
“…Oh, why can’t the English learn to set
A good example to people whose
English is painful to your ears?
The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears.
There even are places where English completely
disappears. In America, they haven’t used it for years!!…”
January 9th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
There’s no universally accepted definition that could distinguish between “language” and “dialect” in linguistics. Most simply don’t make any real difference, and when talking about a speech form, may call it a “language”, especially when they don’t compare or refer it to other, related speech forms, and may call it a “dialect” when viewed as part of a dialect continuum, or family of related languages. But usually, they just skirt the issue wherever they can, or switch to a neutral term such as “variety”.
You realise there is a crucial difference: “Dialect” suggests dependence, “language” independence, among other things.
If you insist, there are several possibilities, and these are probably not exhaustive:
* A dialect is a language mutually unintelligible to some other language that it is related to.
But mutual intelligibility among related idioms is often dependent on many factors, and within groups of related idioms, there are often no clear language boundaries at all. On the other hand, in a dialect continuum, dialects far removed from each other can be for all intents and purposes be mutually unintelligible, even though there is no place where one becomes the other, they just gradually shade into each other.
* A dialect is a language without a written standard (usually dependent on some other written language instead).
Put otherwise, a language is a dialect that has been declared standard and codified.
That’s a sociolinguistic definition. However, it is to be noted that English and German both have more than one standard version.
According to this line of thought, one could indeed argue that British English, American English, Canadian English, Germany German, Austrian German and Swiss German are all different languages.
Luxembourgish is not considered a German dialect any longer as a standard has been developped for it which was made official not long ago.
* A dialect is a speech form that is not distinct from some reference idiom regarding morphology, only in pronunciation, vocabulary and syntax.
That’s one the more interesting definitions I know, but not without problems, either. Chinese dialects don’t really have morphology, for instance …
* A dialect is a speech form derived from an older speech form.
Under this usage, French is called a Romance dialect, or even a dialect of Latin, or English and German are called Germanic dialects. This usage is traditionally heard among historical linguists.
* A language is a dialect with an army and a navy.
Originally, this was expressed in Yiddish: “a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot”, and was published (but not coined) by Max Weinreich in 1945.
* A dialect is an “aberration” or “corruption” of a standard language.
This is, of course, a value judgment. Historically, however, this is clearly wrong in many cases.
For example, Scots is not a “corruption” of standard English because standard English is derived from East Midland Middle English (with some southern influences), while Scots is a separate development from proto-English, which was already distinct when standard English formed in the 15th century. It was called Middle Scots (or early Scots before about 1450) and had its own literary language, complete with spelling rules, grammar, etc., of its own. Early Scots was much more similar to Northern Middle English than East Midland Middle English.
Scottish English, however, indeed derives from standard English and formed only after the Union of the Crowns in 1603.
* A dialect is a language spoken in a country and different from the national language.
This is the most popular, but linguistically also most absurd definition. According to this, Basque as spoken in Spain is a Spanish dialect, and Basque as spoken in France is a French dialect.
Uneducated people often simply assume that everyone in country X speaks the X-ian language: Germans speak German, the French speak French, the Spanish speak Spanish, the Canadians Canadian, Australians Australian, Irish Irish, Scots Scottish (or English), the Austrians Austrian, the Swiss Swiss, Turks Turkish, Peruvians Peruvian, Argentinians Argentinian, Brazilians Brazilian (can you see where this leads?) and presumably switch their language when they change nationality. Minority or regional languages are not considered as a possibility, even though there is no 100% monolingual country. When there are clearly different indigenous languages, they are usually called dialects.
January 9th, 2010 at 11:12 pm
Also, India does not have a single national language, but plenty of them (even though Hindi and English are generally used as linguae francae). Same with South Africa. There is simply no “Indian” or “South African” language.
Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian, and Montenegrin are distinguished only by microscopical differences, and derived from the East Herzegovina sub-sub-dialect of the Neo-Shtokavian sub-dialect of the Shtokavian dialect of Serbo-Croatian, while Croatia is home to the Chakavian and Kajkavian dialects which each are far more different from standard Croatian than standard Serbian is from standard Croatian. Kajkavian, which is traditionally spoken in and around Zagreb, is often called a bridge between Serbo-Croatian and Slovene. (Obviously, it would have made more sense to create a new Croatian standard language by mixing Kajkavian and Chakavian features instead of taking the same language that the Serbs use and that comes from Herzegovina, just introduce a few artificial differences and then pretend this Croatian was entirely different from the languages the Serbs and the Bosnians use.)
Standard Hindi and standard Urdu are two standard versions of Hindustani, a dialect of “greater Hindi”, Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia are two standard versions of Malay, Romanian and Moldavian are basically identical apart from the writing system, Galician is still basically a Northern Portuguese dialect, while spoken Brazilian Portuguese can be quite odd and has quite some influences from indigenous languages, especially Tupinambá, which used to be the lingua franca (instead of Portuguese!) in Brazil until the 18th century (similar to the role of Chinook Jargon in the Pacific Northwest, which used to be spoken by whites in the 19th century, as well) …
When politics interferes with linguistics, chaos is certain to ensue!
January 25th, 2010 at 8:13 am
[…] wei? noch, dass ich mit meinem Englisch-Lehrer dar?ber mehrmals diskutiert habe (lang ists her). Nothing For Ungood Blog Archive Germans intentionally learn the wrong kind of English Dieser besagte Lehrer sprach Oxford-Englisch, weil er da auch studiert hat (heititeiti). Und wir […]
January 26th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Hello,
I really like your page. I’m studying English and Spanish to become a teacher in Bavaria
We can choose which variety we want to speak and I have to say that more of my friends studying English speak American English than British English and we all will teach American English at school.
So we’re gonna try and make the difference
February 15th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
LOL,
Just brill.
Having lived here for far too long, I have forgotten a lot of the things that used to/still make me mad.
The humour is priceless, the irony is cutting and to the point, and the comments are worthy in thier own right.
Germans are really funny and it is best to laugh (otherwise I would cry).
Oh and by the way for all the comment readers: Germans do correct a English native speaker’s English. Ho, ho.
Clavain
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Yes, we do. Even English native speakers admit that the English of some of us is better than their own. “Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen!”
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:05 pm
I know it’s embarrassing, but sometimes you’ll simply be beaten at your own game by a foreigner.
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:48 pm
@Florian;
Spoken like a fellow who didn’t know what’s the deal with the Slausen cut-off! ;>)
February 24th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Gee. Mastery of a language does not necessarily equal knowledge of every tiny pop culture factoid, especially not US pop culture since I tend to British English anyway.
February 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Absolutely correct. English is spoken around the world to be able to talk to Americans, not to the British.
And ba the way, if you’re gonna to learn American English you better learn it lickety split, ’cause it ain’t gonna be ’round long. Them there Mezquins are a’comin’ speakin’ English all wopperjawed and eatin’ them tacos an’ burritos, an’we’ll all be speakin’ Mezquin before you can say “hasta la vista English”.
Viele Grusse für die die Humor genissen.
March 1st, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Who wants to talk to Americans, anyway?
March 17th, 2010 at 9:48 pm
I’d like to add that if you look closely at the evolution of British English, you’ll notice that, particularly in the past 20 years, the Brits have adopted a growing list of Americanisms. Case in point: I lived in London from ‘85-’87, and I often used the very American expression, “This/That sucks,” which was always met with confusion by my British friends, to whom I had to explain what this idiom meant. Now, in 2010, every British friend I have knows and uses this expression. On the other hand, you will never get an American to use the word “mate” meaning “friend,” or saying, “I’m skint” or “I’m knackered.” This will never happen.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
In den 1980er Jahren hatten wir im Haus meinerm Eltern regelmäßig amerikanische Soldaten zur Miete.
Unserem langjährigen Mieter und Freund, MSgt John, gab meine Schwester einmal ihre Englischhausaufgaben zur Korrektur.
Aber auch nur dieses eine Mal
April 26th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
I’m a native English speaker since I’ve spoken American English with my mother since birth. I lived in the USA for ten years from age 4. When my family returned to Germany I was often criticized by my English teachers for my American English. Some of my fellow students who spoke such poor English that I doubt any native speaker could understand them got better marks than I did. One male teacher I had sounded like a drunken Arnold Schwarzenegger. I especially liked it when he tried to correct my pronunciation. Once my American mother (who speaks perfect German) intervened the situation changed. I simply had to be consistent with my spelling and grammar. In fact, I seldom used ‘gotten’ until this incident and afterward would purposely use it just because it irritated my teachers!
I read books by British authors frequently and aside from a few vocabulary differences that should be understood by most educated people I find no substantive differences between the different forms of English.
The differences in accent within each native English speaking country are at least as great as any differences between them.
A few others here have added their anecdotes of ’stupid Americans’. I’ve traveled through all of the UK many times and have many strong relationships with people from throughout the UK and could share many similar stories about my experiences as well (Do you have chocolate in America? When was the last time you saw a murder?). I could even add a few good ones from my German family and friends. I’ve had German university graduates ask me some of the most ignorant questions I’ve ever heard. Stupidity doesn’t have a passport. Quit with the tired anti-American generalizations.
April 29th, 2010 at 12:31 am
Can’t quite agree with you here…
True, we start out learning BE in 5th grade, and yes, I still remember the controversy about “crisps” and “chips” (btw, in Germany we say “Chips” as well, and in Britain no one cared a penny for chip/crisp fries/chips arguments either), but I’ve never been chided or downgraded for using… whatever it was I acquired in New Zealand. It certainly wasn’t BE.
Tbh, most of our teachers are flipping when they hear us usher a proper sentence in English at all, accent be damned.
I’m still hung up on the “favourite” spelling with a ‘u’ and I can’t spell out “definitely” if my life depended on it, but nobody at my university cares about it.
In fact, most people are amazed when they hear you talk with an accent (or proper English, as a matter of fact) because it shows that you have been abroad and are oh-so-cool.
Apparently I have obtained a slight pinch of AE along the way. No idea where that came from… o.O
May 2nd, 2010 at 12:53 am
Caro: I think you meant “utter”, not “usher”.
There’s not only BE and AE. There’s Scottish English, Irish English, Welsh English, Australian English, Canadian English, South African English, Hawaiian English, Indian English, etc., and New Zealand English, which is what you learned.
May 4th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
I don’t really care whether people prefer British English or American English. One variation is not better than the other. I learned American English in school and as an adult learned German in Austria. I still prefer the Vienna accent in German to any accent I’ve ever heard in Germany. Does that make it more correct? No. It just means I like it better. It has a more musical sound to my ears and I prefer Austrian slang more.
For that matter, I prefer Austria to Germany in nearly all respects. Had I first lived in Germany that may not have been the case. I suspect some of you who have written here prefer your particular brand of English for the same reasons rather than any qualitative differences.
May 6th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
No one has brought this up, But US English (by the way the term “American” is used here completely wrong) but US english is getting heavily and i mean heavily influenced by Spanish, Go to any Southwest or Florida city and you have to know some Spanish. Should that be taken into consideration?
May 6th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
As long as you learn some kind of English it doesn’t matter what kind. By the time you leave school your English is still far from perfect and your German accent will be dominant over any British or American one. The mistakes you make as a foreigner with “false friends”, for example, will be more disturbing than using American vs. British terms.
Once you start a career you can focus on developing regional terms and accents, cuz who knows to which part of the world your future job will take you anyways?
May 9th, 2010 at 12:14 am
@Josh - While I appreciate the geographic distinction of America to mean the continents of North and South America I beg to differ on your argument that the usage is wrong.
There is no one, not a single person, who is not a citizen of the United States of America who would describe him or herself as an American. The term is widely understood to mean a citizen of the United States to the exclusion of all others.
Even in Canada, the US’s closest cultural ‘cousin’ and a fellow part of North America, the term America is universally used to describe people from south of their borders. Give it a little test. Go to an average bar in Edmonton on any given Friday night at say, ten in the evening and praise the bar patrons by loudly proclaiming how glad you are to be partying with “you Americans”. Perhaps as you are awakening in an “American” hospital you could comment that you are glad you are in an American hospital as opposed to any other kind of hospital. Observe the reactions.
Should you need additional evidence that the term American is used properly to refer to US Americans you should check out the site USA Erklaert and read the hilarious post describing just this subject.
May 9th, 2010 at 3:08 am
But Simone, don’t you see that it is confusing and annoying that you have several slightly differing standards for the learner, so that he/she doesn’t know where to strive? In German the problem doesn’t really exist because even though there are several different standards, in practice you would (except in very special cases) learn the standard used in Germany, not Austria or Switzerland. But with BE and AE you can’t really tell which standard a learner should use, there are good arguments for both. And it is simply annoying when every time you encounter certain words you need to think about how to spell them first and make a decision. :/
May 10th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
@Florian Blaschke - The emphasis on in your first sentence should be on “slightly”. There are indeed differences between standard American usage of the English language and English as it is taught in English schools. These differences are slight however. I am, of course, speaking about written English. I was educated in the USA but read British authors without noticing any significant differences at all. Apart from some simple spelling differences the grammar and vocabulary are nearly identical save for a few exceptions well known to all educated English speakers.
Spoken English, especially informal speech, is quite a different matter. In formal business situations there should again be no significant differences but informal situations are where the differences in slang, vocabulary and accent become an issue. I contend that the differences within the USA or the UK are at least as great as any difference you could find between them. A West End Londoner will have as much difficulty understanding a speaker from Aberdeen as he or she would a speaker from Los Angeles.
I’ll also suggest that a person whose native language is not English is just as likely to have communication difficulties in the UK as in the USA (or Canada, New Zealand, Australia …). The fact that it is in mode in Germany to denigrate anything American probably gives rise to the misplaced notion that British English (in all is various spoken forms) is somehow superior or “more correct” than the standard US form of English. Given the wide variations in spoken German throughout the German speaking world I suspect that many Germans mistakenly believe the differences in spoken English are similarly as strong. They aren’t. I travel to the UK six times a year for business and spend holidays with my English and Welsh colleagues frequently and while we often laugh together about our various accents have yet to have a misunderstanding due to substantive dialect differences.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
In fact, I think the “slightly” is exactly what makes it WORSE: you can’t entirely ignore it, but you can easily miss the differences, too. On the other hand, you simply can’t avoid choosing sides, unless you use inconsistent spelling, vocabulary, phrasing, etc. There is no “neutral” variety for international use - or at least none that is sufficiently well-known - for those who just wish to be on the safe side and not risk being perceived as making a political statement. (At least in German, the variety used in Germany is effectively considered “neutral” and routinely taught to foreigners.) And as you say, when it comes to pronunciation, the differences are much more marked. This state of affairs is quite unsatisfying for the learner.
I’m acutely aware that the differences within AE and even more so BE are considerable (even disregarding traditional dialects which have developped independently from written standard English, which includes Scots and its various dialects as opposed to Scottish English), no worries.
However, when it comes to BE vs. AE, there are competing forces at work in Germany. It would be a gross simplification to claim that BE were consistently preferred. “Anti-Americanism” has certainly weakened after the election of Obama, who is acceptable even to most of those (seemingly few) Germans who have not taken part in the enthusiastic celebration of his victory (dubbed “Obamania”), at least more so than “Dubya”. Moreover, American culture is very present to Germans and they are likely to be familiar with AE if they are familiar with spoken English at all, for example through songs, and even more so with written Americanisms. Most opposition to AE is probably rather a token skepticism that doesn’t correlate with practical rejection of Americanisms in favour of BE. The practical knowledge of BE among Germans is likely rather low, and typically limited to “schoolbook English”, i. e. a more or less German-accented pronunciation of English that is based on RP (and therefore likely notably different from any variety of real-world BE), unless they have actually used exchange opportunities or other hands-on experience with English as spoken in England. I know that for a very long time, namely into my twenties, I’ve been entirely unaware of T-dropping as a common feature of BE, and heard it in practice even later, and the existence of Irish English and Scottish English and many others as outright dialects (rather than some slight stereotyped accent) were entirely unknown to me. Thanks Wikipedia and YouTube (and some experiences in person).
Last week I attended a talk that David Crystal gave “The Future of Englishes”, and his recommendation for teachers is to simply teach the variety of English that the teacher knows best, when it comes to production, but as for comprehension, to familiarise the students with ALL major varieties of English used in the world, like BE, AE, Afro-American, Canadian, Scottish, Irish, Australian, NZ, South African, Caribbean, Indian at least, or so.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Oh, and was “in mode” a deliberate Germanism? I would have spelt it “in Mode” then to make that clear
May 25th, 2010 at 5:06 am
It seems we agree that adding value statements to variations of English (Der Spiegel referring to American variants as incorrect, not simply different) is not useful. There are indeed differences in the various forms of English spoken by native speakers as well as second language learners. I contend that these differences are interesting but rarely lead to miscommunication. As someone who taught English at a Japanese University for several years (Masters Degree in TEFL; Cambridge Certificate) I can appreciate the dilemma faced by English teachers as well as learners.
I too learned foreign languages in school (Japanese as first foreign language und ja, auch Deutsch!) and can commiserate with learners who are perplexed by regional accents and subtle differences in grammar, spelling and usage. Still, I never let those regional differences affect the way I communicate in Munich, Frankfurt, Vienna or Zurich. I’ve ordered Brötchen in Bad Tölz and have even spelled Schifffahrt without the third f and have never encountered a person who couldn’t understand what I meant. I suspect that English learners the world over will find that few native English speakers will care whether you ‘rent’ or ‘hire’ a car. If I agree to pay you twice a month, every two weeks or once a fortnight you’ll not give much consideration to my vocabulary.
I will express disagreement with your argument that German anti-Americanism doesn’t play a large role in matters of language. Anti-Americanism is palpable and omnipresent in Germany. I know that history precludes an open conversation about stereotypes and prejudices in modern Germany but it should be recognized that anti-Americanism is more than just the rejection of the Bush Administration’s foreign policy or the death penalty. The Pew Research Center’s Global Opinion Survey is telling on this point. In 2006, Germans polled for this survey rated the US as the greatest threat to world peace. More than Iran, Russia, North Korea or Islamic Extremism. The words Amerikanische Verhältnisse are used to describe everything from extreme poverty to mass ignorance. (This despite the Human Development Index or the statistical tie in the PISA Study and TIMSS) When I travel in Germany I hear that my English is spoken as if I have bubblegum in my mouth. I don’t chew gum and the irony is that my British colleagues don’t speak German and outside of business situations few people can understand them forcing me to translate into German or restate their sentences in American English. Any Hugendubel bookstore in Germany will have a section of books describing the Americans as fat, dumb, lazy, violent or worse. I’ve met few Germans, even among the educated and well-traveled, who don’t parrot these stereotypes. I recently told a mid-twenties German man that I didn’t care much for Germany’s entry for the Eurovision Song Contest, Lena Meyer Landrut. He expressed neither agreement or disagreement with my opinion but replied simply that ‘at least she wasn’t singing in that terrible American English I usually hear on the radio’. It seems she gets 12 points for NOT speaking American English.
As for “in mode”, I’ve used that phrase nearly all my forty plus years without ever once thinking it a Germanism.
May 30th, 2010 at 5:28 am
Understanding is not the problem, of course. It’s the choices that the non-native speaker faces - subtle, but annoying.
Well, if Germans are that deep into Anti-Americanism, then they must be quite schizophrenic because in practice they celebrate a pro-American cult as well. And to be honest, I keep hearing complaints from Americans themselves, especially those having experience with foreign countries, about serious shortcomings of their own country, most of all the education system. It seems that the stereotype you lament is present among educated Americans (with a strong tendency to liberal politics), too, but rather refers to rednecks, religious fundamentalists or certain middle-to-lower-class urban dwellers (addicted to TV and junk food). You know … some sort of white trash. Our John himself has suggested that the stereotypical American formerly was a stereotypical Texan … although that stereotype used to be more positive. (But in fact, there are similar stereotypes in Germany about lower-class Germans, so perhaps it’s not that remarkable.)
As for LML, I didn’t like the song she presented at all (I thought it was dull and completely unmemorable - nor particularly original, even for the standards of lightweight pop music), nor did I care for her voice (I was involuntarily subjected to it while watching “Wetten, dass..?”, I don’t watch the ESC), and her accent certainly didn’t change anything for me!
That’s funny about “in mode”, because I can’t find anything about this expression on the web. Are there really Germanisms that idiosyncratic? Lately I encountered “wasser” apparently referring to bottled mineral water like in German “Wasser” short for “Mineralwasser”) but when I asked an American friend of mine, she had never heard the word used in English.
June 7th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
By the way, if the attitude of Germans towards Amis bothers you, go to Latin America and feel the love. LOL! (They actually have good reasons to resent the USA.)
Oh, and for every German who seriously believes that all Amis are stupid, lazy etc., there are at least two Amis who seriously believe that Hitler still rules Germany …
June 9th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
@Floran Blaschke - I work three months out of the year in Chile and have indeed encountered a bit of anti-Americanism over the years. The difference between what I experience in Germany and in South America is that few Chileans make broad generalizations about Americans or American culture the way many Germans do. They, as you pointed out, have real reasons to oppose US policy and an astonishing grasp of history to back up their very specific complaints. I’ve never once felt that I was being held accountable personally for the sins of my government anywhere in Latin America. In fact, once I’ve had a chance to listen to their positions and they mine we’ve mostly found common ground and agree on the best course forward for our nations. I always take these kinds of discussions into account as I vote for my representatives.
On the other hand, I’ve been the ‘victim’ of many rants, some of them bordering on violence, most devoid of much thought, by a wide cross section of Germans on topics as varied as nuclear arms, the Iraq War or the death penalty. I appreciate the passion they have toward the subject at hand but I’d also appreciate at least a bit of effort on their parts to understand the issues a bit more and to listen to my positions before launching into a simple-minded stereotype about me.
I suspect you are simply exaggerating when you claim that Americans believe Hitler still leads Germany. I admit that far too many Americans launch into “Hitler” mode any time Germany is mentioned. I lament this situation and always try to do my part to educate them about modern Germany. That said, I KNOW this is not an American problem alone. Hitler-talk is much more prevalent in the UK and France than it is in the USA. I have a German surname (Smalls is a nickname) and encounter questions about my ancestry every time I’m in the UK or France. A majority of people, once they know I’m of distant German extraction, concede some negative stereotype about Germans and make the usual Hitler associations. I must say that this is common in Chile too where many of Hitler’s accomplices ended up after the war.
Unlike you I don’t LOL about this but instead mourn the fact that international understanding is still burdened by ignorance and simple polemic.
July 16th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
I don’t know if you really know German schools, but especially in the higher classes a lot of teachers accept speaking with an American accent or allow writing exams in American English. If you stick with one writing style consistently, you’ll not have a problem.
August 8th, 2010 at 7:20 am
In my mind AE sounds totally weird.
They should really start teaching BE in school everywhere to come back to the roots.
The article expresses the innate arrogance of Americans.
August 10th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
I grew up speaking both English and German as I am an amalgamation of both (English seems more prevalent in this blog; that’s why I chose it here).
What i find confusing in English, from a learning standpoint, is the flexibility required to use English words properly. Follow me:
Will you READ this to me?
Have you READ it yet?
Ha ha, same word, different pronunciation. Deutsch does NOT do this to me.
More Examples
He will LEAD you astray.
That bunker is lined with LEAD (the metal).
The following are from: http://the_english_dept.tripod.com/eng.html
The bandage was wound around the wound.
The farm was used to produce produce.
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
We must polish the Polish furniture.
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert..
A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
I did not object to the object.
It’s hard for me to judge either way since both come naturally to me; but it seems English, especially with silent letters not found in German, would be more difficult for foreigners.
August 13th, 2010 at 4:57 am
@Randalf - Is that like your arrogance to assume that BE is better than AE? Which roots exactly are you going back to? If you go back far enough both German and English were the same language and even before that the ancestral language of both was found in central asia. Perhaps we should all learn the proto-germanic language of the roots so you won’t have to worry about “arrogance”.
By the way, to say arrogance is innate is simply ignorant and no better than racist drivel you twit.
August 15th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
How is resenting Americans and their language anything like racist? BS. They’re not a different race. (Actually they’re multiracial, just like Brits nowadays are. Just take a stroll through London and marvel at the many South Asians and Jamaicans.)
Also, the ancestral language of German and English was never spoken in Central Asia, but in Northern Germany, haha. If you’re thinking about proto-Indo-European, the Ukraine is not in Central Asia, but in Eastern Europe, and suggesting that the Ukraine is in Central Asia is just as offensive and ignorant as calling the Americans “innately arrogant”.
August 15th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Richard: This is an issue of spelling, not of the language itself. In the spoken language, the problem does not exist.
English spelling has basically stayed the same since the late Middle English period, i. e. about 1400, and continues to reflect the way the language was pronounced back then.
That’s the reason why it’s such a mess. Unfortunately, updating it is not an easy task, as no other spelling would account as well for the different ways to pronounce English - the traditional spelling is perfectly neutral because it does not reflect any particular regional accent.
The only viable way to update the spelling would probably be to remove some of the most irregular spellings, such as “enough”, by replacing it with “enuff”. Even then, the disadvantage would be that the connection with related languages would be lost - “enough” resembles German “genug”, much more than “enuff”, “night” resembles Scots “nicht” and German “Nacht”, “nite” far less so.
Shakespeare’s English predates the split into British and American English - a number of actors have learned its pronunciation as an accent just like any other accent of English. I’d advise you to try and learn this pronunciation if you desire one that is “original”. Or try the late Middle English pronunciation - it’s as close to the spelling as you can get, and much more logical and familiar to Germans (especially considering that Middle English is more similar to German in some other ways as well.
August 25th, 2010 at 2:40 am
Florian, even you must admit that claiming an “innate” inferiority of any kind is akin to racism. That is my position. Basta.
I’ve a degree in English and linguistics from UC Berkley. I know where the ancestral indo European language that morphed into English and German come from you ignorant bastard. Your German education system has failed you again. It is indeed from the Indian sub-continent.
August 30th, 2010 at 1:15 am
If something has nothing to do with races, it’s not racism. Basta.
The ignorant bastard is you. The Indian sub-continent is South Asia, not Central Asia. And if you got educated about the matter, the idea that the Indo-European languages came from India is only current among Indian nationalists and totally discredited among experts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_India_theory
August 30th, 2010 at 2:01 am
Only *if* there were anyone who would explicitly posit the idea of an “American race” (which is patently even more asinine than the idea of a “Jewish race” and roughly comparable to the idea that there is a “homosexual race”), and attributed some qualities to that “race” that somehow proved their “innate inferiority”, *then* the epithet “racism” would be appropriate. Attributing “innate arrogance” to the Americans is just plain old prejudice or bigotry, just as claiming that Muslims (who are equally obviously not a race or even ethnicity) are innately aggressive savages, or that Star Trek fans are pimply nerds with no life, and there is no reason to apply the term “racism” to it but ignorant alarmism and sensationalism. As if prejudice in itself wasn’t bad enough already.
I loathe the overapplication of the word as it gradually begins to lose its meaning and turns into something overly quotidian and banal. People begin to shout “racism!” at every trivial occasion where somebody does not treat them nicely enough. Same with “fascism”. That’s a classical example of a dysphemism treadmill. Negative hyperbole, cacophemism, fighting words, power words, loaded language, all words for the same annoying phenomenon. Language as weapon. Which could actually be called a propaganda or brainwashing technique.
September 6th, 2010 at 3:50 am
Still Florian, you aren’t as intelligent as you think you are. I never said it WAS racism, only akin to racism. Read my friend, read. Perhaps you’ll overcome your superiority complex and learn something useful.
September 6th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Still Bradley, you aren’t as intelligent (or educated) as you think you are. Calling plain old prejudice “akin to racism” is unnecessary alarmism nevertheless. Read my friend, read. Perhaps you’ll overcome your superiority complex and learn something useful. (See above posts of mine and yours.)
September 7th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Considering history I’ll stick by my opinion that one cannot be alarmist enough about prejudice. Americans cannot, in any way, be generalized. My home state enjoys lower rates of obesity, higher levels of education, longer life spans and better infrastructure than Germany (CIA World Fact Book, US Centers for Disease Control, PISA Study website, UN Human Development Index – Look it up). Still, I’m frequently reminded by Germans that my way of life is inferior. Even your schadenfreude above regarding opinion of Americans in Latin America shows a bias you can’t seem to hide. I too have traveled in Latin America and have never experienced any negativity about my nationality. I speak Spanish well and spend time out of the tourist areas. I’ve been invited into homes and enjoyed unbroken weeks with local families in Guatemala, Mexico and Nicaragua. Not one mention of my citizenship was made.
As for your insistence that Indo-European languages did not first emerge in what is now north central India, I can’t believe you’d really rely on Wikipedia. Like I said, I have a degree from a university better than any in Germany on this subject and am thus more qualified than the 14-year-old genius who posted to Wikipedia. The theory, like the theory of evolution, is only controversial to those without knowledge about the subject. Like you.